Southwest to furlough?

[Jdflyer]

Nearly 7000 Warn notices sent out including 1221 to pilots

https://apple.news/A-3F8cScQTreewLdm9rdxoA

[Beagleboy]

Nearly 7000 Warn notices sent out including 1221 to pilots

https://apple.news/A-3F8cScQTreewLdm9rdxoA

Southwest is in pretty good shape going forward with their present balance sheet and some level of Coronavirus relief in the near future, but it’s instinctive for airlines to burden labor by demanding they pay in some way for profit loss even if that loss is only temporary. But, Southwest has treated their organized labor fair and reasonably well, so I think that’s a different equation as opposed to AA. I would expect any similar demands in the future to AA labor should they try, to fall on deaf ears.

AA has already furloughed though, so that threat at least is now somewhat diluted. Besides, AA’s problems aren’t just related to the virus or temporary, they are systemic and long-term.

[RobertRoss]

@Dacuj

Ha ha ha ha ha! Bwah ha ha! Dude, keep trying to make yourself feel better for making a HUGELY bad decision to leave AA. Maybe you can review these to compare what you have done.

https://historycollection.co/10-of-h...t-decisions/2/

Yeah, there's only one reason you come here and we know what it is.

Yes, to let Eagle (envoy) Pilots know that there is a better option than waiting to flow to AA. In my case, I was awarded with an 18 month jump up in seniority. Something that may come in quite handy these days.

Apparently my "HUGELY" bad decision to leave AA was well timed.

A buddy of mine hired at SWA in mid December 2017 is one of the most senior pilots to get a warn notice. He was hired at SWA 3 weeks before I would have flowed to AA.

On the other hand, one of the most senior furloughed (or ZeroTime Line) pilots at AA was one number senior to me at AE.

Conclusion, the 18 month jump mattered.

[NoOtPilot]

How many “ACTIVE” pilots at AA “On payroll” now?

[Dacuj]

@Dacuj



Apparently my "HUGELY" bad decision to leave AA was well timed.

A buddy of mine hired at SWA in mid December 2017 is one of the most senior pilots to get a warn notice. He was hired at SWA 3 weeks before I would have flowed to AA.

On the other hand, one of the most senior furloughed (or ZeroTime Line) pilots at AA was one number senior to me at AE.

Conclusion, the 18 month jump mattered.

Ooooohhh!!! The big bad Southwest going to furlough. I thought you said they had it all together? Oops. Guess you were WRONG! Yep, keep telling yourself it was a good move. Sure, we believe you.

[Cujo665]

Ooooohhh!!! The big bad Southwest going to furlough. I thought you said they had it all together? Oops. Guess you were WRONG! Yep, keep telling yourself it was a good move. Sure, we believe you.

Sorry to hear about the furlough. Don’t wish that on even my worst enemy, which certainly isn’t you. Fingers crossed for you all for a speedy recall.
That said, Rob raises a great point. Seniority list position is everything. If a 2 year Envoy guy has a chance for Spirit, Jetblue, Frontier, Allegiant, Southwest, Delta, United, FedEx, UPS, or even Kalitta or Omni they’d be foolish to let 2 plus years of seniority at a destination carrier get away. A flow to a legacy with the dismal product AA is putting out these days should be a back up plan only unless AA is your dream job. Any of the others and you’ll retire a millionaire if you try. Living in base for an LCC is a better QOL than commuting to any job. Homebasing is even better.
ATI and Atlas would be good too. I’m sure Atlas will get a decent contract soon. ABX just TA’d a new 6 year contract with ATI pay rates, DC & 401k retirement and other schedule improvements.
Its a different lifestyle though, 1 maybe 2 leg days, lots of days on short call in various cities around the world. It’s pretty much guarantee only unless you do overtime, are senior enough to bid a hard line, or in some type of special program, or hitting the soft money hard.... example....We can get up to $750 on an international Deadhead by taking coach instead of business/first.

point is, AA is not the be all end all job in aviation anymore. Keep options open. Get OUT of the regionals at your first opportunity.

[ardvark]

Thats sacrilege, the god of hell (dacuj) is going to send lightning bolts towards you

[Cujo665]

Thats sacrilege, the god of hell (dacuj) is going to send lightning bolts towards you

Meh.... not worried about it.....

on a side note, I heard a rumor that SW may get into cargo more than just the bellyhold business that has picked up tremendously this year.

[RobertRoss]

Ooooohhh!!! The big bad Southwest going to furlough. I thought you said they had it all together? Oops. Guess you were WRONG! Yep, keep telling yourself it was a good move. Sure, we believe you.

I get it, reading comprehension is hard.

Let me explain where even you could understand.

When I said:

In my case, I was awarded with an 18 month jump up in seniority. Something that may come in quite handy these days.

The operative word was “may”. Ya see, I was saying 2 things. First, I was acknowledging that I understood that there was a very real chance that SWA would end up furloughing as a result of this pandemic. Second, I was expressing optimism that my decision to go to SWA 18 months before I would have flowed to AA was going to serve as a buffer against my possible furlough.

Right now, initial indications are that if SWA does in fact furlough, the most senior SWA Pilot Furloughed has a very similar date of hire to AA’s most senior pilot furloughed. Had I stuck with flow to AA, I would be furloughed. Had I been hired at SWA 18 months later at a time near what would have been my AA flow date, then I would be looking at furlough.

The decision to cut and run to SWA 18 months earlier did in fact make a significant difference.

So in actuality, rather than being “WRONG” as you put it, I was exactly RIGHT. Today I have a 1200 pilot buffer between me and the most senior warn letter that was sent.

[RobertRoss]

Sorry to hear about the furlough. Don’t wish that on even my worst enemy, which certainly isn’t you. Fingers crossed for you all for a speedy recall.
That said, Rob raises a great point. Seniority list position is everything. If a 2 year Envoy guy has a chance for Spirit, Jetblue, Frontier, Allegiant, Southwest, Delta, United, FedEx, UPS, or even Kalitta or Omni they’d be foolish to let 2 plus years of seniority at a destination carrier get away. A flow to a legacy with the dismal product AA is putting out these days should be a back up plan only unless AA is your dream job. Any of the others and you’ll retire a millionaire if you try. Living in base for an LCC is a better QOL than commuting to any job. Homebasing is even better.
ATI and Atlas would be good too. I’m sure Atlas will get a decent contract soon. ABX just TA’d a new 6 year contract with ATI pay rates, DC & 401k retirement and other schedule improvements.
Its a different lifestyle though, 1 maybe 2 leg days, lots of days on short call in various cities around the world. It’s pretty much guarantee only unless you do overtime, are senior enough to bid a hard line, or in some type of special program, or hitting the soft money hard.... example....We can get up to $750 on an international Deadhead by taking coach instead of business/first.

point is, AA is not the be all end all job in aviation anymore. Keep options open. Get OUT of the regionals at your first opportunity.

agree

[gonzo]

example....We can get up to $750 on an international Deadhead by taking coach instead of business/first.

For the love of god, tell me nobody is taking the cash over a business/first ticket.

[Cujo665]

For the love of god, tell me nobody is taking the cash over a business/first ticket.

I think a few guys have been doing it during the pandemic because they get a whole row instead of stuck in a cattle car.
I never turn down business/first and the miles.
They have gotten much better at deadheading us on company flights which sucks since it’s coach. The secret is to do your gateway from an airport with lots of international. They have to put you on direct flights when available, so you’ll get a direct overseas commercial all the time. If you’re coming in from a smaller airport, (two leg commute), they’ll fly you wherever one of ours is going over and DH you in the last row reserved from crew.

how is the CBA coming?

[Layman]

Sorry to hear about the furlough. Don’t wish that on even my worst enemy, which certainly isn’t you. Fingers crossed for you all for a speedy recall.
That said, Rob raises a great point. Seniority list position is everything. If a 2 year Envoy guy has a chance for Spirit, Jetblue, Frontier, Allegiant, Southwest, Delta, United, FedEx, UPS, or even Kalitta or Omni they’d be foolish to let 2 plus years of seniority at a destination carrier get away. A flow to a legacy with the dismal product AA is putting out these days should be a back up plan only unless AA is your dream job. Any of the others and you’ll retire a millionaire if you try. Living in base for an LCC is a better QOL than commuting to any job. Homebasing is even better.
ATI and Atlas would be good too. I’m sure Atlas will get a decent contract soon. ABX just TA’d a new 6 year contract with ATI pay rates, DC & 401k retirement and other schedule improvements.
Its a different lifestyle though, 1 maybe 2 leg days, lots of days on short call in various cities around the world. It’s pretty much guarantee only unless you do overtime, are senior enough to bid a hard line, or in some type of special program, or hitting the soft money hard.... example....We can get up to $750 on an international Deadhead by taking coach instead of business/first.

point is, AA is not the be all end all job in aviation anymore. Keep options open. Get OUT of the regionals at your first opportunity.

I say go do what you want to do. Everyone has an opinion, everyone has a different situation too. Whatever makes you happy, because in the end it’s just a job.