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Thread: Envoy to Downsize

  1. #1
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    Envoy to Downsize


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    In order to maintain scope ratios, envoy will downsize.
    1C6E3D1C-D532-40A3-98EE-849309C3B006.jpg

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    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    That's a given. Envoy will downsize while the rest af aag feeders bring all there aircraft back. Taken one for aag envoy.

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    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Here's the most recent update out of ORD.....

    For those who missed the call, some basic general notes from the ORD All Pilot Call
    ⁃ 29 fewer aircraft than anticipated (less 175s coming online from compass and 140s being retired)
    ⁃ Over next 1-1.5 years over staffed on 140/145
    ⁃ Cannot give a specific number for furloughs, company claims this is dynamic. “moving target”
    ⁃ Not line qualified individuals will be most vulnerable
    ⁃ Union in discussion with Company to mitigate number of downgrades and furloughs
    ⁃ Pilot group has made it clear that concessions in pay/hours are not wanted to mitigate furloughs
    ⁃ Union suggested voluntary measures for leave prior to furloughs
    ⁃ Furloughs have to occur in reverse seniority order based on system wide seniority list. There will be no exceptions.
    ⁃ AA reduction in contract flying is not something that the union can directly address. Required to give them a certain number of daily departures or face fines. Only way to restructure these would be bankruptcy, leaving the union with no way to bring more flying to wholly owners.
    ⁃ Downgrades do not violate CAREs act, as pay rates are not reduced.
    ⁃ All vacancies done by hand, line by line on an excel spreadsheet. No backfills anticipated.
    ⁃ 30 percent clause pertaining to existing captains can be waived by company. If waived, expect mostly 145 CAs to fill 175 CA vacancy.
    ⁃ FOs cannot bid jet to jet, this is something that will not change
    ⁃ Bottom CA given no PDIS after bid = May 2018
    ⁃ All CAs are right seat qualified, no extra training will be provided for same equipment downgrades.
    ⁃ Return from leaves will be given what status they can hold upon return. Explained in contract.
    ⁃ Last bid for “good while”. Rough number was asked for later in the call...possible they may run a second bid in September, which would consist of more downgrades. That could be the last vacancy for over a year.
    ⁃ Cannot preference a downgrade. Can only preference to displace in this way
    ⁃ At least 140 FOs have hours need to upgrade to CA based on last bid. 170 awarded only 30 actually trained due to cancellation of vacancy. 175 CA expected to go senior.
    ⁃ Company eyeballing those that have not finished IOE to be furloughed
    ⁃ Warn notice does not indicate a furlough, just gives the company legal right to furlough
    ⁃ ORD CPO may be reviewing pilots on RAP travel, his pet peeve is pilots not being in position on RAP
    ⁃ A large group of individuals have completed training or parts of training but not IOE
    ⁃ Vacancy runs prior to displacement
    ⁃ CSLOA preferences will be skipped
    ⁃ About 117 pilots still in training pipeline
    ⁃ If on an LOA, you can work elsewhere.
    ⁃ ORD will be the hardest hit, see the most movement with this bid
    ⁃ All new hire bonuses were negotiated outside of the CBA. ALPA is not in a legal position to negotiate the payout of these.
    ⁃ If you are furloughed, you are out of luck on vacation. Not much clarity on this.
    ⁃ PSA is in the worst position, they are the most over staffed. Their pilot group represents a significantly higher cost than MQ due to their contract.
    ⁃ For 3P (preference bid), leave blank if you do not want to move. In the displacement preferences, list every status in the company in the order that you would want.
    ⁃ Expect to fill all 120 vacancies on 175 FO with displacements. They could leave some open but it’s not anticipated by union.
    ⁃ No ongoing reserve negotiations
    ⁃ Union has said that the company needs to end flight school visits
    ⁃ May be an APA clause that would mandate the eradication of contract regionals if total flying fell below a certain number. APA would like to get rid of Skywest, Mesa, and Republic. The specifics of this are not clear.

    __________________________________________________ __

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    Here's the most recent update out of ORD.....

    For those who missed the call, some basic general notes from the ORD All Pilot Call
    ⁃ 29 fewer aircraft than anticipated (less 175s coming online from compass and 140s being retired)
    ⁃ Over next 1-1.5 years over staffed on 140/145
    ⁃ Cannot give a specific number for furloughs, company claims this is dynamic. “moving target”
    ⁃ Not line qualified individuals will be most vulnerable
    ⁃ Union in discussion with Company to mitigate number of downgrades and furloughs
    ⁃ Pilot group has made it clear that concessions in pay/hours are not wanted to mitigate furloughs
    ⁃ Union suggested voluntary measures for leave prior to furloughs
    ⁃ Furloughs have to occur in reverse seniority order based on system wide seniority list. There will be no exceptions.
    ⁃ AA reduction in contract flying is not something that the union can directly address. Required to give them a certain number of daily departures or face fines. Only way to restructure these would be bankruptcy, leaving the union with no way to bring more flying to wholly owners.
    ⁃ Downgrades do not violate CAREs act, as pay rates are not reduced.
    ⁃ All vacancies done by hand, line by line on an excel spreadsheet. No backfills anticipated.
    ⁃ 30 percent clause pertaining to existing captains can be waived by company. If waived, expect mostly 145 CAs to fill 175 CA vacancy.
    ⁃ FOs cannot bid jet to jet, this is something that will not change
    ⁃ Bottom CA given no PDIS after bid = May 2018
    ⁃ All CAs are right seat qualified, no extra training will be provided for same equipment downgrades.
    ⁃ Return from leaves will be given what status they can hold upon return. Explained in contract.
    ⁃ Last bid for “good while”. Rough number was asked for later in the call...possible they may run a second bid in September, which would consist of more downgrades. That could be the last vacancy for over a year.
    ⁃ Cannot preference a downgrade. Can only preference to displace in this way
    ⁃ At least 140 FOs have hours need to upgrade to CA based on last bid. 170 awarded only 30 actually trained due to cancellation of vacancy. 175 CA expected to go senior.
    ⁃ Company eyeballing those that have not finished IOE to be furloughed
    ⁃ Warn notice does not indicate a furlough, just gives the company legal right to furlough
    ⁃ ORD CPO may be reviewing pilots on RAP travel, his pet peeve is pilots not being in position on RAP
    ⁃ A large group of individuals have completed training or parts of training but not IOE
    ⁃ Vacancy runs prior to displacement
    ⁃ CSLOA preferences will be skipped
    ⁃ About 117 pilots still in training pipeline
    ⁃ If on an LOA, you can work elsewhere.
    ⁃ ORD will be the hardest hit, see the most movement with this bid
    ⁃ All new hire bonuses were negotiated outside of the CBA. ALPA is not in a legal position to negotiate the payout of these.
    ⁃ If you are furloughed, you are out of luck on vacation. Not much clarity on this.
    ⁃ PSA is in the worst position, they are the most over staffed. Their pilot group represents a significantly higher cost than MQ due to their contract.
    ⁃ For 3P (preference bid), leave blank if you do not want to move. In the displacement preferences, list every status in the company in the order that you would want.
    ⁃ Expect to fill all 120 vacancies on 175 FO with displacements. They could leave some open but it’s not anticipated by union.
    ⁃ No ongoing reserve negotiations
    ⁃ Union has said that the company needs to end flight school visits
    ⁃ May be an APA clause that would mandate the eradication of contract regionals if total flying fell below a certain number. APA would like to get rid of Skywest, Mesa, and Republic. The specifics of this are not clear.

    A FAR cry from the cries of the Town Crier over the last year or two. A hard lesson for sure for those who assumed nothing could go wrong.

  5. #5
    Registered User Dacuj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    A FAR cry from the cries of the Town Crier over the last year or two. A hard lesson for sure for those who assumed nothing could go wrong.
    You have to be the biggest hypocrite who USED TO walk the halls of the AA Training Academy. Notice I said USED TO. How about all that blabbering about how Delta and United had it right and were kicking American's butt 9 ways to Sunday? Hmmm?? How about it? Looks like you were flat WRONG! Delta and United both are sucking wind when compared to AA. Just take a look at Vasu's recent interview where he said AA was going after market share and the current environment, while not good, was a chance for AA to grab and grow market share from those two PRISTINE carriers you like to mumbo jumbo about so much. In summary and closing....

    YOU WERE WRONG!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    You have to be the biggest hypocrite who USED TO walk the halls of the AA Training Academy. Notice I said USED TO. How about all that blabbering about how Delta and United had it right and were kicking American's butt 9 ways to Sunday? Hmmm?? How about it? Looks like you were flat WRONG! Delta and United both are sucking wind when compared to AA. Just take a look at Vasu's recent interview where he said AA was going after market share and the current environment, while not good, was a chance for AA to grab and grow market share from those two PRISTINE carriers you like to mumbo jumbo about so much. In summary and closing....

    YOU WERE WRONG!
    Doug Parker was wrong, he said no furloughs, but you are getting two letters. 1st letter next week, 2nd letter 60 days later. BTW, now that AA canít even get finance to buy planes...wonder if after the government money runs out, they are going to have any money left for payroll?🤔
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 07-11-2020 at 11:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    You have to be the biggest hypocrite who USED TO walk the halls of the AA Training Academy. Notice I said USED TO. How about all that blabbering about how Delta and United had it right and were kicking American's butt 9 ways to Sunday? Hmmm?? How about it? Looks like you were flat WRONG! Delta and United both are sucking wind when compared to AA. Just take a look at Vasu's recent interview where he said AA was going after market share and the current environment, while not good, was a chance for AA to grab and grow market share from those two PRISTINE carriers you like to mumbo jumbo about so much. In summary and closing....

    YOU WERE WRONG!
    LMAO! If you want to believe what management puppets say, knock yourself silly. ALL the carriers will downsize and in the end, but AA’s “grabbing of market share” will be temporary. Internationally, AA will become far more flaccid in most markets and downright impotent in others. Keep clicking your heels Dorothy and saying to yourself, “there’s no place like home...there’s no place like home...”. It’s all you’ve got left, Mongo.

    You’re going to take it up the chute and you know it.

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