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    LEC121 News Bast


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    Sunday, July 14th, 2013

    More Concessions?

    Hello New York --

    As you are undoubtedly aware, USAir management is asking your MEC to broker a deal to achieve further cost reductions as related to pilot labor. I?ll give a very brief history, a best and worse case scenario, and call for you to advise Phil & Me how you?d like us to proceed.

    How we suddenly got here:
    Delta Airlines CEO Richard Anderson announced during a recent Wall Street investors teleconference that he had Pinnacle, GoJets and Compass as low cost regional feed providers and that 50% of Delta?s feed (which itself is about 50% of the total Delta operation) was performed at Pinnacle costs. A clause in Delta?s Air Services Agreements (ASA) allows Delta to reset what it pays to its more costly feeders to closely align with the more ?competitive? rates. This occurs whenever larger aircraft are placed into service and/or at given time intervals. So, in short, Delta says a large portion of it?s domestic operations are performed at these low rates and by 2017 all of it's regional flying will be at those rates.

    USAir/AA?s game-plan is not only in flux, but it?s being watched and supervised by Wall Street, the courts and management types who have something to prove to the world. For these reasons, they compelled to match their biggest competitor?s (Delta?s) costs. Hence the request for concessions.

    Your MEC did meet with Scott Kirby and the rest of the USAir Senior Management recently where the above was discussed with more specificity. The new USAir bosses seem genuinely interested in the well-being of their acquisition and want to honor the deals we struck with AMR that honor our sacrifice and performance. Hence the concept of a B Scale: Leave us alone, while throwing the unborn into a future cost structure that has a downward trajectory.

    My crystal ball is foggy. I have no way of knowing whether Pinnacle style pay-rates and career progressions are part of a sustainable regional airline model. Nobody knows how Delta?s other feeders are going to react when forced to slash their costs (and inevitably lower pilot pay rates). But that isn?t really the point, because that?s in the future. USAir wants to prove to Wall Street that they can run the operation with a similar or better cost structure today.

    I do believe the tightening requirements of Part 121 First Officers will greatly reduce the number of individuals willing to slave away for $25k. There simply is no justification for an ATP qualified pilot to be earning anything less than a salary truly commensurate. The regional airline industry must quickly wean itself off the notion that someone who has invested the time and energy necessary to become an ATP (even a restricted ATP) is going to work for $25k a year. Like crack addicts, the sooner there is an intervention, the sooner the healing can begin. Management must shift to the new paradigm, and quickly. Those who get it right first will have the cream of the pilot crop.

    What?s the worst case?
    We get Comair?ed. Using Comair?s size as a rough model, I can tell you that I think it entirely realistic that AAG (the new AMR) could retire the Eagle certificate by mid 2016 to early 2017.

    What?s the best case?
    That?s actually a trick question: there is no best case right now. Ideally, management grows us and takes a bold, industry leading step to attract and retain pilots and provides a cradle to grave career progression with compensation befitting ATP pilots while honoring the pain and sacrifice this work group has endured. Having seen the plan, I can safely say that's not the works.

    Again, I don?t have a crystal ball, but it?s no secret AAG is about to order several dozen planes. Maybe we will get a few new aircraft to offset the departing ones. Maybe not. And next time AAG wants to buy a few more, we?re going to have face this same issue again: will we match the industry's lowest cost carriers in exchange for aircraft?

    Status quo is not good, and isn't sustainable. Eagle can not survive with the status quo. Worse than the airline shutting down, it means stagnation for everyone until the lights get turned out. If you?re a senior CA, you?ll stay that way. If you?re the most senior FO, you?ll probably stay FO. With no growth, with nobody coming in the bottom, there will be no career progression.

    Sadly, I think this is a concern no matter how many concessions we give. If AAGdoesn?t invest in Eagle and keep us a bright, shining star and chooses to instead give nice, new airlines to some other carrier I believe Eagle will implode faster than management can wind it down. Performance will quickly languish, dependability will plummet, and FOs will leave for greener mainline or international pastures. Or leave the industry altogether.

    The choice ahead is tough. It?s something pilot groups have been facing for quite some time and the pattern is well established: Do I take a haircut and live to fight another day? Or do I stand and say ?no more!?

    I, for one, am not inclined to attempt to match the industry's lowest costs. Right now they ARE the outliers. I can?t imagine anyone struggling to get an ATP and then going to any airline other than the best paying one. But if we match them, then they become the new de facto standard and the entire industry will follow and we will absolutely eat this at the next amendment round, if not before.

    Make no mistake, we?re not alone. Republic, Air Wisconsin and Skywest pilots to name a few are in negotiations with their respective managements over pilot compensation. They?re probably being told they need to acquiesce quickly lest Eagle pilots lower the bar further!

    The race to the bottom continues, and we haven?t found bottom yet.

    Ladies and Gentlemen of New York, as I wrote when I ran for office, I?m not inclined to enable that race any further. I have outlined the risks involved, but right now I am inclined to invite Mr. Kirby to place his new aircraft elsewhere if it requires me to allow him a B Scale. I represent you, dear friend, to management. You elected me to this position, and contrary to our Chairman?s email of a few days ago, I am completely comfortable with the concept of the Status Reps (MEC) functioning in our role of governance in that ALPA is a Republic, not a democracy. I am completely comfortable voting NO on something that I believe is so wrong it doesn?t even warrant going out for a general pilot ratification.

    Now is the time for you to speak up if you feel I am misguided or plain wrong. My understanding is that there is a vote on Monday on how to proceed. If you have comments, suggestions, or feedback please email me ASAP at sam.pool@alpa.org.


    Regards,
    -sam-


    Phil Valente
    121 Chairman
    CA Representative
    Phil.Valente@alpa.org
    Sam Pool
    121 Vice Chairman
    FO Representative
    Sam.Pool@alpa.org
    __________________________________________________ __

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    Vote "No".......

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    Vote No!!

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    Vote No!!!! on a different note, i just renewed my CFI certificates

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    Vote Hell No !!!

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    I'm ORD, but please vote no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Lucky View Post
    I'm ORD, but please vote no.
    Your two reps have already indicated they are voting yes. They say they have to approve the proposal so you can see the proposal. Reality is there are no rules saying they couldn't publish the proposal right now for everybody to see... But it's how Team Tony gets it past the weak minded MEC members.
    __________________________________________________ __

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    I sent out an email to LEC/MEC reps a few days ago expressing my thoughts on this proposal. This is what i received from John Glenna. Seems all ORD reps are for it.

    Hi Anthony,

    I am as frustrated as you are at our current situation. But to just throw our hands up and say, "talk to us in eight years" does not address the crux of our problem. We are an airline with an increasingly obsolete fleet. The industry has made clear the intent to move away from 50 seat and smaller aircraft, in favor of larger RJ's. The industry will be very different in eight years. It would be a mistake to wait that long to begin thinking about our future.

    In an attempt to protect as many jobs as possible, we must engage in negotiations that may result in renewing our aging fleet. Our flow through and furlough protection depend on American Eagle remaining a viable entity. If we can secure replacement aircraft, we will remain a viable entity for all Eagle pilots. That is one of many goals in these negotiations.

    Fraternally,

    Jon Glenna

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    Quote Originally Posted by v1rotate View Post
    I sent out an email to LEC/MEC reps a few days ago expressing my thoughts on this proposal. This is what i received from John Glenna. Seems all ORD reps are for it.

    Hi Anthony,

    I am as frustrated as you are at our current situation. But to just throw our hands up and say, "talk to us in eight years" does not address the crux of our problem. We are an airline with an increasingly obsolete fleet. The industry has made clear the intent to move away from 50 seat and smaller aircraft, in favor of larger RJ's. The industry will be very different in eight years. It would be a mistake to wait that long to begin thinking about our future.

    In an attempt to protect as many jobs as possible, we must engage in negotiations that may result in renewing our aging fleet. Our flow through and furlough protection depend on American Eagle remaining a viable entity. If we can secure replacement aircraft, we will remain a viable entity for all Eagle pilots. That is one of many goals in these negotiations.

    Fraternally,

    Jon Glenna
    Did you reply? Ask the question why we need to make concessions to protect the majority; with our furlough protection we are in a great place lol. That's the majority protected right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by davie7ee View Post
    Did you reply? Ask the question why we need to make concessions to protect the majority; with our furlough protection we are in a great place lol. That's the majority protected right?
    I received replies from quite a few of members (Tony, Kelly Paul, Phil, Sam, etc.) I didn't respond, for the most part i just shook my head (with the exception of a few). My attitude has just sprirled into a burning hole. I'll just wait for this to get to the pilots, so i can vote no *while everyone else votes yes* and i can swallow more concessions due to our weak pilot group. Either way, i think i'll be either restarting as some hole of a regional to pay the bills, or making it to mainline somewhere. At least i personally will not be contributing to the race to the bottom.

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    The ORD reps's are always a nacy pelosi without tits. Always airheads and not a single brain cell between them combined.
    I told them to vote no, knowingly they will vote yes because they represent the majority of the spineless at this company.
    As always they have never seen a dog they could not lick.

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    I don't understand. clearly if they can send it out to the pilots for ratification they will have to have all the details spelled out. So why would there be any type of NDA associated with this? Why can they not just publish this for the entire pilot group to review and then listen to what their constituents want????

    This seems very similar to Nancy Pelosi telling me how we need to vote it in to see what's in it.

    I have to tell you, this stinks, and quite frankly it leads me to question a few things, one of them being voting fraud. How can anyone trust anything Tony or Dave are doing when so much evidence points to the fact that they may have embezzled, or at the very least, helped hide the fact that embezzlement has occurred. I don't know whether to trust them or not as no formal investigation has been completed.

    We have no proof that they would engage in voting fraud, but at the same time we have no proof that the fix is not in. Until a full blown investigation is complete and all the details are brought to light I have to assume anything is possible with these people. What is being promised to these folks behind closed doors??????

    The only thing that makes sense to me is the fix is in, things are being promised to a few select individuals, and the voting numbers have already been tabulated, and we are just along for the ride no matter what we vote. As I said I have no proof that that is the case, it is just what my gut is telling me.

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    Personally, I am a No Vote when it comes to throwing the new kids under the bus, just to protect my A$@. But I am also old enough now to know that I'll be 65 before my offer comes up, but if it does come early its frozen because I can't afford to go...that is not right. We also all know that these little airplanes have to go, and who else is capable of flying a bunch of new jets. Anybody see any hiring booms out there lately??? Go ahead I say ... give the jets to somebody else and lets see who flies them for you.
    On the other hand, are any of us gonna be around at Beagle in 2017 to see this stuff??? They will have to raise the pay to get anybody here.
    I beleive this is another ploy to get rid of the senior guys (15+years) that they feel are too expensive for a Regional Airline. They would love to not have anybody over 12 years, and even that may be too long.
    Just wait til they start putting us up against each other (PSA, Piedmont, Eagle). Which one will be the Pinnacle???
    They just want the most for themselves, and that hasn't changed. Just wait for pilots to start paying them to fly for "The Company." Go ahead try and replace 1400-1500 flights a day, and see what you get.... welcome to the big leagues US.
    Hey what do you get when you add US and America West together??? The company about the size of Eagle
    Last edited by sully7777; 07-14-2013 at 10:57 PM. Reason: more content

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    Quote Originally Posted by v1rotate View Post
    I sent out an email to LEC/MEC reps a few days ago expressing my thoughts on this proposal. This is what i received from John Glenna. Seems all ORD reps are for it.

    Hi Anthony,

    I am as frustrated as you are at our current situation. But to just throw our hands up and say, "talk to us in eight years" does not address the crux of our problem. We are an airline with an increasingly obsolete fleet. The industry has made clear the intent to move away from 50 seat and smaller aircraft, in favor of larger RJ's. The industry will be very different in eight years. It would be a mistake to wait that long to begin thinking about our future.

    In an attempt to protect as many jobs as possible, we must engage in negotiations that may result in renewing our aging fleet. Our flow through and furlough protection depend on American Eagle remaining a viable entity. If we can secure replacement aircraft, we will remain a viable entity for all Eagle pilots. That is one of many goals in these negotiations.

    Fraternally,

    Jon Glenna
    "Our flow through and furlough protection depend on American Eagle remaining a viable entity".

    Is he sure about that ?

    First of all, I think it would take at least 2-3 years (and possibly longer) to replace Eagle and "Comair" it as some say. During that time, hundreds of the 824 flows should be at AA and it's my understanding that at least the 824 provisions would survive any demise of AE (unless there are more secret agreements ALPA has made unbenownst to the pilots). Most F/O's could easily make a lateral move to another regional seeing as how they will be so short-staffed and Eagle's contract at that point with resetting of pay, etc., won't be any better than many F/O's would move to at another regional carrier and all with likely faster upgrades elsewhere as even the best sceanrio still has Eagle shrinking.

    Is there risk ?

    Obviously, but it sounds to me like Glenna has been convinced Eagle ALPA's long-time strategic transmission layout of 5 gears in reverse and one forward for when management gets behind them is the most effecient way to get from A to B. After this excuse, just like every other one in the past, there will be another..........and another..........and another. I simply see ZERO credibility in these characters anymore. Again, I think they just don't want to be the ones to take the blame and we all know they aren't noted for taking responsibility for anything.

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    An ALPA National VP has emailed them with twisted interpretations of ALPA policy claiming the US LBFO meets the requirements under ALPA policy; and that if they don't approve it they could be opening themselves up to legal problems. Basically trying to intimidate them into approving it.
    __________________________________________________ __

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    Couette spouting bull again, another ORD pelosi. Couette is at alpa national as vp, he is the only vp that gets involved at eagle. He is another corrupt morale person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Couette spouting bull again, another ORD pelosi. Couette is at alpa national as vp, he is the only vp that gets involved at eagle. He is another corrupt morale person.
    It was the other one. Maxwell

    People need to understand this is not - NOT - just about throwing our young to the wolves.
    If we do this, all it will take is one other to copy us. Then in the 2016 amendment round we ALL get benchmarked to the lowest two regionals. Which means we all end up on the D scale.
    __________________________________________________ __

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    ^^^^^. Plus 10. It's what I've been saying down here

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    well, according to Sam's email, I'm sure we will all know the details of this proposal today after it passes the vote by the union.

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    Quote Originally Posted by v1rotate View Post
    I received replies from quite a few of members (Tony, Kelly Paul, Phil, Sam, etc.) I didn't respond, for the most part i just shook my head (with the exception of a few). My attitude has just sprirled into a burning hole. I'll just wait for this to get to the pilots, so i can vote no *while everyone else votes yes* and i can swallow more concessions due to our weak pilot group. Either way, i think i'll be either restarting as some hole of a regional to pay the bills, or making it to mainline somewhere. At least i personally will not be contributing to the race to the bottom.
    I understand you may have to go to another regional to pay the bills. However, I think this is what management is counting on. Shrink this regional and enough people will leave and go to another "bright spot" regional in order to get the staffing they need. Lowers costs as you go to the bottom of that regional's list and as soon as you rise up the ranks enough to gain QOL and perhaps with upgrade getting close, the regional you went to is suddenly too expensive. The cycle starts all over. Years off your life for a sorry regional, non-career airline and still no closer to that major job. If enough were flat out fed up and either moved up or on instead of laterally or downward to another crappy outfit, then perhaps management would have to change tactics and actually increase pay and benefits to hang on to their pilots. As it stands now, go in to your CP to resign and you get, "Here is your checklist of things to do before your last day." They are still counting on new hires to replace you. If the pool dries up, which it currently seems we may have only an inch of water left in an Olympic size pool, then maybe they start to ask you about rethinking your decision to move on.

    For me personally, this is my last regional. If I can't make it out of here to a major, LCC or otherwise reasonable job somewhere else, then I'm done flying. Fortunately, I've planned in the past and can afford it and have no stress as I have no bills at all. I know not everyone can do this but my worst case scenario is cutting grass, working at Lowe's or perhaps an office job somewhere.

    Ironically it is ALPA is the entity that has destroyed the pilot profession. Believe me, after 6 years here, if we didn't have this ridiculous closed shop, I would be taking my chances with AMR. ALPA blows that bad. They are interested in self sufficiency only, as in keeping Lee Moak and the other high ranking management making their grossly over-inflated 6 figure salaries. They could care less about John Q. line pilot at Delta. So what does that tell you about regional pilots? They really don't give a sh**.

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