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Thread: President calls out Parker

  1. #41
    Registered User Dacuj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snippercr View Post
    It's funny, DaCuj thinks I am with you all, you all think I'm with DaCuj...

    Anyways, I'll just stop posting. That's easy. I just posted the archetypal posts of the personalities.
    You know snip, I used to really respect you. You stated more than once than you only wanted to work for American Airlines and you weren’t going to go slumming with the likes of Spirit; Allegiant, JetBlue or others. Being part of the Dream Team who helped oust tyranny from one of the world’s busiest forums, I felt like you were 100% on board.

    It’s unbelievable I know but I almost find myself in agreement with BB. With this fence straddling game of yours, you are just too wish washy. Pick a team. The RIGHT team and stay on board. Envoy/AA.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by snippercr View Post
    It's funny, DaCuj thinks I am with you all, you all think I'm with DaCuj...

    Anyways, I'll just stop posting. That's easy. I just posted the archetypal posts of the personalities.

    Nah dude, keep posting. The "I can't tell which side of this never-ending feud between various shills" group of posters are the ones that generally provide the most reasonably accurate information and narrative.

    I mean, sure, you have Dacuj, who is wildly pro-management. If he wanted to, he could make his points far more eloquently by acknowledging the quality of life and compensation pitfalls that (continue to) exist at envoy, or the punitive nature of the chief pilots office and upper management, all while still touting the career advancement program which exists to provide envoy pilots an easy, albeit slow, path to the majors, but he doesn't have that in him. Dacuj only has his ultra pro-management, envoy recruitment propaganda touting, the new AAG colors on the E-175 make me go BOOM in my pants rhetoric. As such, nobody can take him seriously.

    Then you have Cujo… well, he’s a special character in and of himself. He can’t decide if he’s pro- or anti- ALPA at this point, which is surprising given how many times his job was protected by ALPA. That is, at least, until he finally gave management (and an arbitrator) no choice but to determine that his termination was reasonable and warranted. Nothing like a trip to Disney World to cause irreparable harm to your career. But, alas, he found enjoyment with PenAir, which was obviously better than envoy, and then VIA, which was MILES better than envoy, and now OMNI, which is like a completely different universe compared to envoy… but what he doesn’t broadcast is that he has been begging ALPA and Management alike to help him get back to envoy because he knows that career progression back to AA would be superior than spending the rest of his career at an ACMI freight carrier. Of course, he’ll refute all of this to save face and say that the company was “out to get him” because of his union work, but, really, he was just too dumb to not get fired.

    NoOTpilot… this guy… I’m not really sure what his intent is half the time, but he’s damn sure that something BAD is going to happen in 2021 (although he will never actually divulge any information or evidence with sources to corroborate his assertions). I’m guessing what he’s referring to is that 2021 will be ten years after 2011, when AMR first filed bankruptcy, and that AAG management is targeting that year to reset all of the labor contracts by re-entering ch11. Is it possible that AA will re-enter bankruptcy? Well… yes, it is, but I don’t think that management actually WANTS that to happen considering Parker is one of (the?) largest shareholders of the company. Wouldn’t be doing good things to his stock value by reducing their value to pennies (or, nothing at all). But, AAG does have immense debt, and they need their newer fleet to start flying (looking at you 737 MAX) to reap the benefits. With regards to the incessant postings of NoOT on this forum… I dunno what he expects to gain out of it other than to stoke fear, uncertainty, and doubt among the dozen or so other people on this forum. I mean, what is he trying to convince us of? That moving on from envoy is a better choice than waiting for the flow? I mean… career progression advice can’t get more obvious than that, I'm pretty sure most pilots are aware that going to Delta tomorrow is better than waiting years to go to AA, but I digress.

    Who else we got?

    Oh yeah…

    Ardvark seems to think that everybody who volunteers for ALPA work is really just an extension of management – or is that Beagle? I’m not really sure, but both of them just seem to have general disdain for the pilots who volunteer to do ALPA work. The complaints about negotiations here, grievances there, blah bla-blah bla-blah. It’s fairly entertaining to read their rantings that don’t take into account any of the hoops that the union has to jump through to get anything done. Yeah, they will acknowledge that management is adversarial, but apparently the battles fought aren’t enough to justify the leadership positions that are held by volunteers who are “too afraid to rock the boat because they just want to cooperate and flow.” Yeah, brilliant idea guys, they should totally not act on the feedback from the pilots they represent and just start an all-out labor war to… what? Satiate the demands of a few bitter pilots online who just want to see envoy fail as a company, all of the pilots’ careers be damned? Some of the union emails I’ve read recently have been pretty aggressive towards management – I certainly think the boat has been rocked, so I’m not really sure what more you think they should be doing over there at the union.

    I mean, those are the personalities that do the most posting, but, as you can see, their biases are fairly well known. There is no action that will make them happy, no tenet of a debate that will cause them to reconsider their position, and no end to their willingness to spend hours upon hours calling each other names and debating the merits of their bias to one another. This post will act as chum for them to start circling the flame bait, so I fully anticipate a lovely correspondence from the group.

    My take?
    Is envoy the best? Certainly not. Is it the worst? Also, certainly not. I elaborate on both of those when necessary, but I’ve done a lot of typing already. There is a glimmer of truth to what all of the various personalities here say, but often times it's so deeply shrouded by such vitriol and delusion that finding the truth for any casual reader of this thread is nearly impossible.
    Is everybody in the union great at what they do? No. Are there some volunteers doing a lot of great work for the pilots? Yes. Again, a complex situation due to the nature of how all of the positions are filled coupled with the general apathy of the pilot group, but the presupposition that our union leadership is too afraid to stand up to management in fear that their career will be jeopardized is asinine. Now, it's true that there are some volunteers who are as useful as a sack of potatoes, but it’s not because of some bizarre fear that somehow management will seek retribution. I mean, wouldn’t that be a little obvious? I know management can be daft at times, but come on….

    Anyways, Sniper, we need some of the common sense posters around to make some sense of it all. As it pertains to this developing offer? None of these personalities are going to accept any of the terms of such an offer – they are all going to continue to talk trash and provide a biased-to-the-point-of-being-false narrative, so post on, and provide us with some common sense from time to time.

  3. #43
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    Actually I just dont like alpa. All they have done is water down contract and got nothing in general for anybody except new hires and fo's. There usually is a balance of sort but not often. I have called tony regime and Sam's buddy buddy approach to management.
    I pay money to alpa and if I dont like there performance I'll say so. Management I expect a screw job from them and say so when people walking around with blinders.
    I dont think just because you volunteer at the mec gives you free ticket from being called out on poor judgment.
    Like this pay raise, psa still makes more on the 900 than the e75 here, yes I got a pay raise but short of parity.

    I call strikes and balls, period.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    You know snip, I used to really respect you. You stated more than once than you only wanted to work for American Airlines and you weren’t going to go slumming with the likes of Spirit; Allegiant, JetBlue or others. Being part of the Dream Team who helped oust tyranny from one of the world’s busiest forums, I felt like you were 100% on board.

    It’s unbelievable I know but I almost find myself in agreement with BB. With this fence straddling game of yours, you are just too wish washy. Pick a team. The RIGHT team and stay on board. Envoy/AA.
    The error is yours. I’ve NEVER considered snip to be anything other than pro-Dacuj/Envoy. I’ve noted the position of his comments and their bias before this, so the fact you claim to be surprised is, well............surprising. Actually, it isn’t. Snip may bail from the forum, but rest assured his position has been obviously consistent despite his latest effort to muddy the water.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Actually I just dont like alpa. All they have done is water down contract and got nothing in general for anybody except new hires and fo's. There usually is a balance of sort but not often. I have called tony regime and Sam's buddy buddy approach to management.
    I pay money to alpa and if I dont like there performance I'll say so. Management I expect a screw job from them and say so when people walking around with blinders.
    I dont think just because you volunteer at the mec gives you free ticket from being called out on poor judgment.
    Like this pay raise, psa still makes more on the 900 than the e75 here, yes I got a pay raise but short of parity.

    I call strikes and balls, period.

    My criticisms of Envoy ALPA are well founded. If copy think that makes me an ax grinder, so be it. Clearly, he is a poor student of history as the issue has nothing to do with the concept of volunteerism, but one of dysfunction. All one has to do is look at the past and present and its consistent results to prove beyond all doubt that dysfunction continues not only unabated, but as copy proves, apparently still unrecognized.

    As long as that is the reality (and it is), nothing will change. No skin here, but you’d think pilots like copy who might have skin in the game would become part of the solution, instead of the problem. After all, it is they who will inevitably foot the bill for that position and philosophy. The first step is acknowledging the reality of the situation and that includes Envoy ALPA.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 08-04-2019 at 06:17 PM.

  6. #46
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copycopy View Post
    .............

    Then you have Cujo… well, he’s a special character in and of himself. He can’t decide if he’s pro- or anti- ALPA at this point, which is surprising given how many times his job was protected by ALPA. That is, at least, until he finally gave management (and an arbitrator) no choice but to determine that his termination was reasonable and warranted. Nothing like a trip to Disney World to cause irreparable harm to your career. But, alas, he found enjoyment with PenAir, which was obviously better than envoy, and then VIA, which was MILES better than envoy, and now OMNI, which is like a completely different universe compared to envoy… but what he doesn’t broadcast is that he has been begging ALPA and Management alike to help him get back to envoy because he knows that career progression back to AA would be superior than spending the rest of his career at an ACMI freight carrier. Of course, he’ll refute all of this to save face and say that the company was “out to get him” because of his union work, but, really, he was just too dumb to not get fired.

    ..............
    We don’t fly cargo, only pax
    I wasn’t fired for taking a Disney vacation.
    Always been pro-ALPA, just against those who abuse their position.

    Much of the stuff you post about others I don’t know anything about, but if your story about them is as inaccurate as yours about me; then they need not worry about false spin.
    You take tidbits of facts and put large spin on them... either that or you’ve been fed bad info.
    That’s okay, I expect nothing less anymore from that company or their stooges.
    You’ve revalidated my position.
    Last edited by Cujo665; 08-04-2019 at 10:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    We don’t fly cargo, only pax
    I wasn’t fired for taking a Disney vacation.
    Always been pro-ALPA, just against those who abuse their position.

    Much of the stuff you post about others I don’t know anything about, but if your story about them is as inaccurate as yours about me; then they need not worry about false spin.
    You take tidbits of facts and put large spin on them... either that or you’ve been fed bad info.
    That’s okay, I expect nothing less anymore from that company or their stooges.
    You’ve revalidated my position.
    Have you asked management for job back in the last year? I’ve seen the email.

  8. #48
    Registered User Dacuj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meatloaf View Post
    Have you asked management for job back in the last year? I’ve seen the email.
    yea cuj. Why dont you answer this one inquiring minds want to knoe. why do you dodge this one. You embarazzed cause you work at a dirtbag outfit and want to work at Envoy???

  9. #49
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    So many mgt trolls here, how embarrassing. Just proves the intimidation complaints are true and false information past out with the mgt twist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    So many mgt trolls here, how embarrassing. Just proves the intimidation complaints are true and false information past out with the mgt twist.
    We have had our share of Mason32s also. That was more embarrassing.

    Management people will do what management people do.

    But Mason was supposed to be one of us.

  11. #51
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    Bashing another airline pilot, who tried to help fellow "Line" Pilots, is unfortunate. We all should try to improve the general condition. Who knows what pitfalls and possible misery we may face in the future?

  12. #52
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meatloaf View Post
    Have you asked management for job back in the last year? I’ve seen the email.
    Relax dude, it takes time to dig through a years worth of emails trying to find anything that could be misconstrued so badly. I don’t even have to look at all to know there is not any such job back email sent to them.

    An email was sent almost exactly a year ago (8-20) requesting the record be changed from termination to resignation to aid in more swiftly obtaining a higher security clearance for some very high paying special assignment program flying. I do not know what you’ve been shown, but it was a request to change it from discharged to resigned. If they showed anything else, it’s been edited/altered.

    They were caught after the arbitration having played with and withheld documents. Not surprised at all that they’d do that. Since one of the appeal grounds is them having falsified/withheld documents, it would be great if you could get a copy of it.

    I’m More surprised that people would believe it. I wouldn’t go back even if it was straight to AA. Not because AA isn’t a good job, but because I’m so close to upgrade here that it just wouldn’t make fiscal sense to take the huge pay cut to go back to commuting and crashpads waiting who knows how long for an upgrade, while I’ve only got 13 years left before my planned retirement. I’d rather do those 13 years at $250k plus a year base pay.
    Those who know me outside of here, know I have zero interest in going back to AA, let alone to Envoy. Think about it rationally, what they’re showing you doesn’t even make sense. I’ll take a copy and from who you got it though if you can.
    Last edited by Cujo665; 08-05-2019 at 01:19 PM.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    Relax dude, it takes time to dig through a years worth of emails trying to find anything that could be misconstrued so badly. I don’t even have to look at all to know there is not any such job back email sent to them.

    An email was sent almost exactly a year ago (8-20) requesting the record be changed from termination to resignation to aid in more swiftly obtaining a higher security clearance for some very high paying special assignment program flying. I do not know what you’ve been shown, but it was a request to change it from discharged to resigned. If they showed anything else, it’s been edited/altered.

    They were caught after the arbitration having played with and withheld documents. Not surprised at all that they’d do that. Since one of the appeal grounds is them having falsified/withheld documents, it would be great if you could get a copy of it.

    I’m More surprised that people would believe it. I wouldn’t go back even if it was straight to AA. Not because AA isn’t a good job, but because I’m so close to upgrade here that it just wouldn’t make fiscal sense to take the huge pay cut to go back to commuting and crashpads waiting who knows how long for an upgrade, while I’ve only got 13 years left before my planned retirement. I’d rather do those 13 years at $250k plus a year base pay.
    Those who know me outside of here, know I have zero interest in going back to AA, let alone to Envoy. Think about it rationally, what they’re showing you doesn’t even make sense. I’ll take a copy and from who you got it though if you can.
    Considering the LONG history of misrepresentation, smearing, thuggery, bullying, backstabbing and collusion among certain players within Envoy management and here, I'll take your word over theirs.

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