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Thread: Flow Time to AA is 9.22 years

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    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    Flow Time to AA is now 9+years


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    From another forum:

    “the latest ALPA interactive seniority list (as of yesterday) shows new hires flowing in 9.22 years.”
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 07-26-2019 at 11:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    From another forum:

    “the latest ALPA interactive seniority list (as of yesterday) shows new hires flowing in 9.22 years.”
    Just a thought, but I wonder if flow time to the old US Airways on steroids is now being deliberately made to look as bad as possible so any new flow agreement looks better then it normally would by comparison ?

    I mean, if it’s the intention of the Association leadership to once again ram a marginal agreement down the throats of the pilots (should that turn out to be the case), slight-of-hand magic tricks, distraction and manipulation would be the expected tools they’d use.

    At least that’s how it was done in the past.

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    You cracked the code.

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    Reading Envoy management already put the new agreement improvements on their website, but has since taken it down. If true, it sounds to me like the fix is in and Envoy ALPA leaders are colluding with Envoy management to ramrod this deal. I assume Management jumped the gun to try and get some more nibbles but were reminded that it looks bad by tipping their hand that it’s already a “done deal” and without a scrap of line pilot input.

    Pardon my increasing skepticism, but I cannot not note how the present is mimicking the past in perfect lockstep. Can’t send a marginal concessionary agreement (based on competitive industry leading metrics) to the pilots and risk failure, so option B is just take the pilots out of the equation. Again, this has happened in the past. The original Letter 3 wasn’t put up for pilot vote and was in fact, “out of bounds” in subsequent 1997 contract voting.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 07-26-2019 at 06:20 PM.

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    Latest and greatest update of the list shows the most junior person with a projected flow date of January 2029.

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    That 9.2 years is assuming there’s no OAL attrition. Given the desire for pilots to move up in the industry, there has to be some OAL attrition, but it’s pretty difficult to put that into the interactive seniority list. Most of the OAL attrition will be from senior FOs and Junior CAs, of course, but that 9.2 years is assuming everybody waits for the flow, which is dumb. It also assumes that there are no stoppages in the flow through on 9 years, which may also be farcical.

    In reality, new hire to flow through is probably closer to 7.5 years, and will likely continue to hover around 400 pilots senior to a new hire will be hired to OAL over the course of their wait to flow through. That’s a pretty reasonable estimate.

    Now, continue on with your conspiracy theories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Latest and greatest update of the list shows the most junior person with a projected flow date of January 2029.
    I give them at least some credit for accuracy then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by copycopy View Post
    That 9.2 years is assuming there’s no OAL attrition. Given the desire for pilots to move up in the industry, there has to be some OAL attrition, but it’s pretty difficult to put that into the interactive seniority list. Most of the OAL attrition will be from senior FOs and Junior CAs, of course, but that 9.2 years is assuming everybody waits for the flow, which is dumb. It also assumes that there are no stoppages in the flow through on 9 years, which may also be farcical.

    In reality, new hire to flow through is probably closer to 7.5 years, and will likely continue to hover around 400 pilots senior to a new hire will be hired to OAL over the course of their wait to flow through. That’s a pretty reasonable estimate.

    Now, continue on with your conspiracy theories.
    Yes, it’s all theory. There is no history of manipulation in the past regarding the flow and present management has acted honorably and appropriately towards the pilots regarding their contractual agreements. No history of Envoy ALPA paternalistically handling this pilot group either.

    Nothing to see here folks, let’s move along.......

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    For the Younger Generation of Pilots:

    Keep applying and working to get hired at the BEST airlines, the Old flow through to the New American Airlines as a distant backup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Just a thought, but I wonder if flow time to the old US Airways on steroids is now being deliberately made to look as bad as possible so any new flow agreement looks better then it normally would by comparison ?

    I mean, if it’s the intention of the Association leadership to once again ram a marginal agreement down the throats of the pilots (should that turn out to be the case), slight-of-hand magic tricks, distraction and manipulation would be the expected tools they’d use.

    At least that’s how it was done in the past.
    Deleted first part. Copy said it already


    That list is currently being maintained by an APA pilot. Unless that has changed. He flow two years ago.
    Last edited by Meatloaf; 09-30-2019 at 07:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Yes, it’s all theory. There is no history of manipulation in the past regarding the flow and present management has acted honorably and appropriately towards the pilots regarding their contractual agreements. No history of Envoy ALPA paternalistically handling this pilot group either.

    Nothing to see here folks, let’s move along.......
    The guy keeping the data up to date has been consistent in the way he presents the flow info. He has not changed his metrics or assumptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meatloaf View Post
    The guy keeping the data up to date has been consistent in the way he presents the flow info. He has not changed his metrics or assumptions.
    I would think after reading these forums for years, you would be solidly aware the BB is just a grifter that presents no real information. He never puts out facts only wild theories that are pulled from where the sun don't shine. Any opportunity that presents itself for him to bash the company or to take issue with its financial health, he will seize it and post a bunch of blather here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    I would think after reading these forums for years, you would be solidly aware the BB is just a grifter that presents no real information. He never puts out facts only wild theories that are pulled from where the sun don't shine.
    Pyschological Projection. Wiki has a good basic description and I think virtually all of us should be able to acknowledge by now the unfortunate mental state of this individual. Profanity laced attacks, multiple examples of the aftermath of excessive alcohol consumption and a penchant for engaging in self-abuse to E-175 pictures and videos by his own admission. What more can one say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Any opportunity that presents itself for him to bash the company or to take issue with its financial health, he will seize it and post a bunch of blather here.
    Another example of misrepresentation and embellishment.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 09-30-2019 at 01:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by copycopy View Post
    That 9.2 years is assuming there’s no OAL attrition. Given the desire for pilots to move up in the industry, there has to be some OAL attrition, but it’s pretty difficult to put that into the interactive seniority list. Most of the OAL attrition will be from senior FOs and Junior CAs, of course, but that 9.2 years is assuming everybody waits for the flow, which is dumb. It also assumes that there are no stoppages in the flow through on 9 years, which may also be farcical.

    In reality, new hire to flow through is probably closer to 7.5 years, and will likely continue to hover around 400 pilots senior to a new hire will be hired to OAL over the course of their wait to flow through. That’s a pretty reasonable estimate.

    Now, continue on with your conspiracy theories.

    In on the past it was simple. 50% of all new hires, and the number of retirements alone provided an honest 5 year flow not including guys who were still leaving to elsewhere.
    Its a mathematical impossibility with 29 a month to meet their false flow advertising. Chief fakes advertiser being DaSpooge...
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