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Thread: Flow & Honor

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Pilots advance up the list by retirement and attrition primarily. At Envoy, pilots advance primarily due to FLOW. Cadets today are coming in with far better experience than the "old Eagle" days when they would hire Tom off the street from flying some jacked up Baron around with some freight. Today's cadets are trained in airline procedures from the get go and gain valuable experience at their respective academies by instructing both ground and flight. They benefit from the ATP program and the ATP course before transitioning full time into Envoy. The flow has been working, is working and will continue to work in the future.

    The new American has arrived and it's nothing like the old AMR. Bright futures await those who are lucky enough to set foot on property at Envoy. Try being an AA pilot on for one.

    Caveat Emptor.
    An exceptionally odoriferous pile of flaming rat**** this post is.

    Modern cadets live in a very structured and controlled world where their flights are planned out by syllabus and strictly monitored from start to finish. The weather limits alone are nothing like night freight. The pilots of the past you belittle so easily had to keep their asses out of the dirt by wits, luck and planning and under far less then the ideal conditions of the shiny University flight schools of today. I did my own stint Part 141 as a University CFI back in the day and the pilots now aren’t any better because of their experience. Not saying they are bad pilots, but my bet says you’d have melted down in a night freight outfit in the 1980’s curled up like a cocktail shrimp sucking your thumb or avoiding that, cutting your teeth in a small turboprop slugging it out with the weather 4-8 legs a day with no autopilot.

    Clearly, you have bias against those who could cut what you’d fail at and perhaps it’s time we consider YOUR jealousy, not at missing that experience, but at your almost certain realization you couldn’t have cut it the begin with, Mr. multiple check ride failure. You were even a failure in your “military experience” being nothing more then a CP gofer running around while all the blanks were going off. Your insecurity is practically dripping off of you.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 07-25-2019 at 11:24 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Glad to see you posting here B. Don’t expect The Spooge to agree with anything factual you bring to the discussion.
    If he is who you guys think he is, I've never met him, but I certainly got an earful about him from a few of the flows I flew with in North Havana last year.

    His past posts come off a little "unhinged", so to speak.



    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    The “5 year” projection for AA flow mwas a selling point from the beginning in 1997. I’m not one to claim certainties as that would make me no more then the flip side of Dacuj. IF (and that’s a HUGE if) AAG can stumble along for 5-7 years without a downturn in the economy, they might have a chance at pairing down their debt to competitive levels and that could change their present dynamics. If the worst happens, IMO they can rationalize 2 losing or flat quarters before their liquidity levels reach a point they may uncover the core. At that point, if they don’t have confidence that hiccup is over, they’ll hit the relief valve and blow the glow steam into the atmosphere.

    By doing so there are benefits, but drawbacks as well. The question is, if they believe the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Until that time, everyone is simply whistling past the cemetery.
    That is certainly the million dollar question. Most of the old guard guys I know are pretty convinced that unless we get some new leadership, we will all be taking another ride on the CH 11 train before it's all over and done. The new guys are fun, especially the military guys new to the airline world. They tend to think we will all be lighting our cigars with $100's after we get our well deserved ILC in the very near future. I think it's going to end up someplace in the middle.

    I hope it works out for all of us, but right now, this productive cost unit will be happy if they hold it together until I'm out the door.

    If nothing else, we have that pretty new HDQ "campus", and all the trendy new furniture over at the flight academy. So we got that going for us, wich is nice.
    Last edited by nimslow; 07-26-2019 at 08:06 AM.

  3. #23
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    Unhinged is putting it mildly.
    Ask him about his “decorated military service”.
    He also posts frequently about how the sight of envoy 175s actually arouses him.
    SMDH

  4. #24
    Registered User Dacuj's Avatar
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    I've never claimed "military service." I have a military background due to working at a production company doing re-enactments. Those re-enactments just happened to be Vietnam era and encompassed over 100 people per re-enactment. I mentioned that ONLY because I was stating at the time, the futility of the RTP program and how these guys got built up to be so big and bad and most actually couldn't fly their way out of a paper bag. They take up a valuable and coveted slot that a super qualified pipeline guy should have. I stated my background so I would have a leg to stand on when criticizing these guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    I've never claimed "military service." I have a military background due to working at a production company doing re-enactments. Those re-enactments just happened to be Vietnam era and encompassed over 100 people per re-enactment. I mentioned that ONLY because I was stating at the time, the futility of the RTP program and how these guys got built up to be so big and bad and most actually couldn't fly their way out of a paper bag. They take up a valuable and coveted slot that a super qualified pipeline guy should have. I stated my background so I would have a leg to stand on when criticizing these guys.
    The problem is you are legless in this argument.

    First of all, running messages back and forth between CP's in a civilian play-acting performance is hardly akin to putting your life on the line in an actual battle situation and secondly, there is no correlation between RTP pilots or ANY flying background and inability. That's a strawman argument. You hold 1000 hour CFI's up as the pinnacle of capability and denigrate prior military or more demanding civil ops like night freight, etc. Your spots show perfectly well for all to see my friend and the only person you are fooling is yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post

    The new American has arrived and it's nothing like the old AMR. Bright futures await those who are lucky enough to set foot on property at Envoy. Try being an AA pilot on for one.

    Caveat Emptor.
    Yes, Caveat Emptor.

    It’s being reported on APC that the “new” AA is indeed reverting back to days of the past by intimidating Commuters at least at LGA. Yet another sad red flag, if true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Yes, Caveat Emptor.

    It’s being reported on APC that the “new” AA is indeed reverting back to days of the past by intimidating Commuters at least at LGA. Yet another sad red flag, if true.
    The LGA Flight office has had a reputation of being hard liners with commuter misses for a while now, and I have heard some pretty negative stories from newer guys.

    On the other side of the story, I've heard from a jumpseat committee guy that there are several pilots who think the commuter policy is an unlimited "get out of jail free card", (it's not) and they regularly walk the line just short of "abusing the policy". There are still people who try and sit short call reserve out of base, or can't make the 12 hour long call. There was one PSA flow in MIA who was let go on probation, after 20+ commuter/attendance occurrences.

    I've had one commuter miss, but not in LGA, and it was closed out with a phone call to the CP's office.

  8. #28
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    Nimslow, you are talking about aa, correct

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Nimslow, you are talking about aa, correct
    Correct AA.

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    At least precedent was set in mia 20 miss assignments gets you fired. Means most logical people are safe for their career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    At least precedent was set in mia 20 miss assignments gets you fired. Means most logical people are safe for their career.
    I believe if you are a reasonably responsible commuter, and you don't try and sit reserve in LGA from home a thousand miles away, you will be fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nimslow View Post
    I believe if you are a reasonably responsible commuter, and you don't try and sit reserve in LGA from home a thousand miles away, you will be fine.
    So... you're saying the "negative stories" you're hearing from some new guys and the APC chatter is misleading and as well, the "hard liners" at the LGA CPO are really fair. Kinda getting a mixed message here considering some of the stories related aren't cowboys playing fast and loose, but honest efforts that failed. I suppose they could have an ax to grind and are misrepresenting the situation though. It's good to hear all is well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    So... you're saying the "negative stories" you're hearing from some new guys and the APC chatter is misleading and as well, the "hard liners" at the LGA CPO are really fair. Kinda getting a mixed message here considering some of the stories related aren't cowboys playing fast and loose, but honest efforts that failed. I suppose they could have an ax to grind and are misrepresenting the situation though. It's good to hear all is well.
    Just more proof THAT YOU DON'T EVEN WORK HERE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dacuj View Post
    just more proof that you don't even work here!
    Of course, NEITHER DO YOU !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Of course, NEITHER DO YOU !
    HERE means AA AND Envoy genius. And FWIW, what I've heard about the LGA CPO office is they are more than fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    HERE means AA AND Envoy genius. And FWIW, what I've heard about the LGA CPO office is they are more than fair.
    You are not now, nor have EVER been a true Envoy OR AA pilot, Mr. Wizard. You are just a management wannabe masquerading as a pilot in the hope you can infiltrate and subvert true pilot interests to garner a step closer into an executive position. I think it’s clear you are destined to failure.

    As for what you “hear”, AFAIC that and $3.50 will get someone a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    I've never claimed "military service." I have a military background due to working at a production company doing re-enactments. Those re-enactments just happened to be Vietnam era and encompassed over 100 people per re-enactment. I mentioned that ONLY because I was stating at the time, the futility of the RTP program and how these guys got built up to be so big and bad and most actually couldn't fly their way out of a paper bag. They take up a valuable and coveted slot that a super qualified pipeline guy should have. I stated my background so I would have a leg to stand on when criticizing these guys.
    That is NOT a military background or service, or military anything. You’re a zero in that regard
    Last edited by Cujo665; 07-29-2019 at 05:41 PM.
    __________________________________________________ __

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    That is NOT a military background or service, or military anything. You’re a zero in that regard
    I used to play "Cowboys and Indians" when I was a kid, so using Daclugic, I guess I'm now both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    So... you're saying the "negative stories" you're hearing from some new guys and the APC chatter is misleading and as well, the "hard liners" at the LGA CPO are really fair. Kinda getting a mixed message here considering some of the stories related aren't cowboys playing fast and loose, but honest efforts that failed. I suppose they could have an ax to grind and are misrepresenting the situation though. It's good to hear all is well.
    I think the "issues" with the NY CP is more the delivery, than the message. It's the junior base, with lots of new guys, and a heavy turnover. They have reportedly had the most issues with commuters. Apparently it's bad enough, they feel the need to try and instill the fear of god in the new guys.

    Short of being self employed, I think any of us would be hard pressed to find employment where we wouldn't get talked to by the boss, if we didn't show up for work.

    I saw that thread on APC, and some of those guys have posted about things they felt they deserved as commuters in the past that I'd consider pretty out there.

    Like everything else in this job that seems like a bad thing for us, we can usually find blame in another pilot, or pilots who has screwed it up for the rest of us. If guys want to commute on the same day, without a backup, thats fine by me, but don't get all surprised when you get a talking to, or more after you miss a few trips. If people want to be treated like professionals, they need to act like one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nimslow View Post
    I think the "issues" with the NY CP is more the delivery, than the message. It's the junior base, with lots of new guys, and a heavy turnover. They have reportedly had the most issues with commuters. Apparently it's bad enough, they feel the need to try and instill the fear of god in the new guys.

    Short of being self employed, I think any of us would be hard pressed to find employment where we wouldn't get talked to by the boss, if we didn't show up for work.

    I saw that thread on APC, and some of those guys have posted about things they felt they deserved as commuters in the past that I'd consider pretty out there.

    Like everything else in this job that seems like a bad thing for us, we can usually find blame in another pilot, or pilots who has screwed it up for the rest of us. If guys want to commute on the same day, without a backup, thats fine by me, but don't get all surprised when you get a talking to, or more after you miss a few trips. If people want to be treated like professionals, they need to act like one.
    OK, that was much more definitive; There is no issue with the LGA CPO, it’s the pilots. Thanks for clearing that up.

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