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    SEC Filing


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    SEC Filing Shows American Airlines Loses Money Flying, All Profit Comes From Frequent Flyer Miles

    The airline filed an SEC 10-Q in October 2018 in which they reported $4.2 billion in revenue for the AAdvantage program in the first 9 months of the year.

    According to American’s SEC filing it is certain that without AAdvantage miles sales American would not have earned a profit so far this year. And it’s also true that without the $2.4 billion in mileage revenue buying tickets, even American’s passenger carrying activities would be performing worse.

    The airline strategy of spending large amounts of money retrofitting planes to remove international business class seats, and cram more seats into coach on their domestic planes, as well as eliminating seat back television and limiting customers’ access to lounges isn’t leading to a profitable flying operation.
    “I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    SEC Filing Shows American Airlines Loses Money Flying, All Profit Comes From Frequent Flyer Miles

    The airline filed an SEC 10-Q in October 2018 in which they reported $4.2 billion in revenue for the AAdvantage program in the first 9 months of the year.

    According to American’s SEC filing it is certain that without AAdvantage miles sales American would not have earned a profit so far this year. And it’s also true that without the $2.4 billion in mileage revenue buying tickets, even American’s passenger carrying activities would be performing worse.

    The airline strategy of spending large amounts of money retrofitting planes to remove international business class seats, and cram more seats into coach on their domestic planes, as well as eliminating seat back television and limiting customers’ access to lounges isn’t leading to a profitable flying operation.
    You’d think they be doing something to attract more customers instead of alienate and repel them ? My understanding is that customers who do have a choice are increasingly exercising that choice away from AA. The put the kibosh on the Oasis program to try and keep more around, but not sure if it’s working.

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    Que the naysayers “But the planes are full. With load factors like these, there’s no way possible not to be making a profit.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Que the naysayers “But the planes are full. With load factors like these, there’s no way possible not to be making a profit.”
    You are correct, Parker must be setting profit money in a special fund, just getting ready for something. Wonder what that something could be. A contingency strike fund, just like Frank Lorenzo did?

    https://youtu.be/JrDTXIDUSLE

    “The airline has been keeping a whole bunch of cash on hand. If things were to get ugly, then American can dip into its cash and still have plenty of reserves.”

    ~Doug Parker~
    October 29, 2018

    12/31/2015
    Revenue 40,990,000
    Profit 7,610,000

    12/31/16
    Revenue 40,180,000
    Profit 2,676,000

    12/31/2017
    Revenue. 40,207,000
    Profit 1,919,000

    12/31/2018
    Revenue 44,541,000
    Profit 1,412,000

    Deliveries delayed to save cash. Really?

    Why is Parker imitating Frank Lorenzo in every move? Is he planning to bust a union?
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 06-25-2019 at 10:26 PM.

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    From another forum.

    AAG Management philosophy summed up in one paragraph.
    We will never care. We are a money laundering operation via moving people around. We make our money off credit cards. Then we transfer that to Wall Street by taking out “low interest” loans and by buying back stock. The customer experience never enters the equation.

    Yep, that says it all very eloquently in my opinion.
    Most people in all work groups are beginning to wake up. Too bad it’s too late.

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    Yes, there sure are a lot of red flags flying. Have been for awhile. The good news is there IS time to prepare.

    What’s in your savings account ?

    Caveat Emptor.

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    The real question a lot of folks are asking when, if ever will Dougweiser face his day of reckoning?

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    Unfortunately not my lIfe time. Need something big and stupid to happen.

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    Another DUI maybe?

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    Nah, the board got him a car and driver to avoid that. But aa is the only major I believe loses money while everyone else making money. Only profit are from baggage, food sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Nah, the board got him a car and driver to avoid that. But aa is the only major I believe loses money while everyone else making money. Only profit are from baggage, food sales.
    Loses money on paper for an airline is an accounting tactic in most cases. It’s the leasing, supply, peripherals and equipment companies contracted at well above industry rates that are raking in the money. Most owned by the same investors as with the airline. Siphon the money off, run it broke, bankrupt it.... rinse and repeat.
    2021 is starting to look more and more a reality.
    __________________________________________________ __

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    You telling me. This place feels like it's on thin ice

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    You telling me. This place feels like it's on thin ice
    .....and under this economy. Can you image what will happen (and fast) when the economy tanks ? But, as is suspected, they may just believe it’s a great opportunity to turn a lemon into lemonade.

    Envoy flows and junior AA won’t like the taste of that juice though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    .....and under this economy. Can you image what will happen (and fast) when the economy tanks ? But, as is suspected, they may just believe it’s a great opportunity to turn a lemon into lemonade.

    Envoy flows and junior AA won’t like the taste of that juice though.
    Doug Parker using Bankruptcy, busting unions/bringing them to his knees and tailoring their contracts using Bankruptcy Code 11 U.S.C. § 1113 – Rejection of Collective Bargaining Agreements to make labor more productive and efficient...
    Parker is going to be happier than a tornado in a trailer park...”Yee Haw!!!”

    ATTENTION ALL UNIONS!
    Doug Parker’s looking who wants to go first.

    Any volunteers?

    “2021 is starting to look more and more a reality.“
    ~Cujo665~

    Now they are starting to wonder, let’s hope is not too late.

    Even (The Rookie) told them...”take your suit to the cleaners, go to a few job fairs, and get yourself a new job half a decade before your peers who wait for flow.”
    ~Dacuj~
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 06-26-2019 at 11:51 AM.

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    Too bad Bob is too old to make a comeback.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...the-clear/amp/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Too bad Bob is too old to make a comeback.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...the-clear/amp/
    Everyone should read that article closely. I think one simply cannot continue to avoid facing the unpleasant reality as it's not just the stray disgruntled employee venting anymore. Again, this situation is occurring at a PEAK in the economic curve, not in a valley. The present management of AA is flying the operation into the approach lights and Envoy is simply along for the ride. The most disturbing part is they appear oblivious to it. As for just ONE aspect of the problem, the AA machinists (mechanics, FSC's, etc.) are facing 15% outsourcing and the pilots will too. That's 2000-2500 pilots at the bottom of AA when the albatross takes a dump on their heads who will either BE the outsourced pilots or WATCH the outsourcing from their stagnated ultra-junior pilot positions as AA contracts and no one comes in junior to them for years. The damage occurring now within the AA ranks across the board will be permanent, not temporary. Parker had a window to fix the culture, but he blew it off and you only get one chance at that. The well has been hopelessly poisoned IMO.

    Also IMO though, the BK card will neither save AA this time nor transform it into something competitive because the benefits of doing that require direct attack on labor and thus are diametrically opposed to the interests of the employees and alienation then only deepens further destroying the product making long-term solvency unlikely. If AA management’s plan is to kick the can and hold their breath waiting for big profits to bail them out, odds are they are hosed, which means YOU are hosed if an AA or Eagle employee of one of the WO's. To what degree depends on where on that vomit splattered quilt you sit and also to your personal circumstances. My advice again is for each Envoy pilot to seriously consider their options while they have an advantage vs. when they are forced to act. NO ONE else is looking out for you. Also assume your financial projections and assumptions are extremely overly optimistic if based on flowing to AA and moving up at AA under any present belief of what AA will be going forward. There IS another option. That is ?

    The "Ostrich" approach (AKA "whistling past the cemetery") that dacuj and his floppy, flipping flapper of a cohort espouse. Just deny and pretend all is well...……..yeah, that's the ticket. To those reading this, good luck with whatever path you choose.

    As always.........….Caveat Emptor.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 06-27-2019 at 06:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Everyone should read that article closely. I think one simply cannot continue to avoid facing the unpleasant reality as it's not just the stray disgruntled employee venting anymore. Again, this situation is occurring at a PEAK in the economic curve, not in a valley. The present management of AA is flying the operation into the approach lights and Envoy is simply along for the ride. The most disturbing part is they appear oblivious to it. As for just ONE aspect of the problem, the AA machinists (mechanics, FSC's, etc.) are facing 15% outsourcing and the pilots will too. That's 2000-2500 pilots at the bottom of AA when the albatross takes a dump on their heads who will either BE the outsourced pilots or WATCH to outsourcing from their stagnated ultra-junior pilot positions as AA contracts and no one comes in junior to them for years. The damage occurring now within the AA ranks across the board will be permanent, not temporary. Parker had a window to fix the culture, but he blew it off and you only get one chance at that. The well has been hopelessly poisoned IMO.

    Also IMO though, the BK card will neither save AA this time nor transform it into something competitive because the benefits of doing that require direct attack on labor and thus are diametrically opposed to the interests of the employees and alienation then only deepens further destroying the product, thus long-term solvency is unlikely. If AA management’s plan is to kick the can and hold their breath waiting for big profits to bail them out, odds are they are hosed, which means YOU are hosed if an AA or Eagle employee of one of the WO's. To what degree depends on where on that vomit splattered quilt you sit and also to your personal circumstances. My advice again is for each Envoy pilot to seriously consider their options while they have an advantage vs. when they are forced to act. NO ONE else is looking out for you. Also assume your financial projections and assumptions are extremely overly optimistic if based on flowing to AA and moving up at AA under any present belief of what AA will be going forward. There IS another option. That is ?

    The "Ostrich" approach (AKA "whistling past the cemetery") that dacuj and his floppy, flipping flapper of a cohort espouse. Just deny and pretend all is well...……..yeah, that's the ticket. To those reading this, good luck with whatever path you choose.

    As always.........….Caveat Emptor.
    77EEB344-9244-40CC-81DC-787B40595547.jpg
    “I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    Fortunately, history proves Lorenzo’s ideals and business model failed. But, if this management is stupid enough to try it over again expecting different results (one recognized definition of insanity), so be it. Management and organized labor will never be the best of friends, but Delta proves what the best path forward is and it’s more then just dollars and cents. I fear for AA, it’s too late and 10 years from now, the traditional “American Airlines” will be a shadow of its present self having been broken apart and fragmented over that period being bled down.

    Those hoping for “tradition” flowing to AA are IMO in for a shocking wake-up call. Let’s face it, Parker has already turned the old AA on its ear and it’s now just America West on steroids with new paint and uniforms masquerading as a premier global competitor. Clearly, an increasing number of people are no longer being fooled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Fortunately, history proves Lorenzo’s ideals and business model failed. But, if this management is stupid enough to try it over again expecting different results (one recognized definition of insanity), so be it. Management and organized labor will never be the best of friends, but Delta proves what the best path forward is and it’s more then just dollars and cents. I fear for AA, it’s too late and 10 years from now, the traditional “American Airlines” will be a shadow of its present self having been broken apart and fragmented over that period being bled down.

    Those hoping for “tradition” flowing to AA are IMO in for a shocking wake-up call. Let’s face it, Parker has already turned the old AA on its ear and it’s now just America West on steroids with new paint and uniforms masquerading as a premier global competitor. Clearly, an increasing number of people are no longer being fooled.
    You are 100% correct, Frank Lorenzo failed, but Doug Parker is VERY AWARE of (The Reason) why Lorenzo’s plan failed. IMO they are ready to squeeze the trigger very soon, the final step on the agenda: pick up a fight with a union forcing that group to strike.

    Let’s see which union will volunteer first.

    “But, if this management is stupid enough to try it over again expecting different results...”

    YES THEY ARE!
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 06-27-2019 at 01:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    You are 100% correct, Frank Lorenzo failed, but Doug Parker is VERY AWARE of (The Reason) why Lorenzo’s plan failed. IMO they are ready to squeeze the trigger very soon, the final step on the agenda: pick up a fight with a union forcing that group to strike.

    Let’s see which union will volunteer first.

    “But, if this management is stupid enough to try it over again expecting different results...”

    YES THEY ARE!
    28 June 2019
    American Airlines And Mechanics Head To Federal Court.

    A trial is scheduled for Monday on American's request for a permanent injunction against the Transport Workers Union and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.

    https://dfw.cbslocal.com/video/4114794-american-airlines-and-mechanics-head-to-federal-court/amp/

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