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Thread: Pay Raises & Bankruptcy

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    Pay Raises & Bankruptcy


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    What happens if AAG files Bankruptcy before Envoy pilots get any pay raises?
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 05-31-2019 at 03:56 PM.

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    Who knows, but im sure, like every other thread, the rest of the dacuj and friends circlejerk will be here to hijack this with random garbage and name calling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    What happens if AAG files Bankruptcy before Envoy pilots get any pay raises?
    I am betting on pay raises first shortly followed by Bankruptcy. That way management can say that they gave us pay raises but AA now needs to take them away to stay competitive.

    Hence why we shouldn't be given anything up for raises.

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    Just flow to SWA. Flow time is 3 years for an Envoy pilot that upgrades in 1 year (easily doable, right dacuj?), then takes 2 years to get the 1000 TPIC.

    June: 16 days off and 92:15 hours paid. Was 18 days, but I moved my schedule all around to fit my sonís sports practices, added some flying, dropped some flying, just because I could.

    When was the last time an AA pilot made 92:15 with 16 days off?? If I were senior, that would be 16 days off with 108 hours credit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertRoss View Post
    Just flow to SWA. Flow time is 3 years for an Envoy pilot that upgrades in 1 year (easily doable, right dacuj?), then takes 2 years to get the 1000 TPIC.

    June: 16 days off and 92:15 hours paid. Was 18 days, but I moved my schedule all around to fit my sonís sports practices, added some flying, dropped some flying, just because I could.

    When was the last time an AA pilot made 92:15 with 16 days off?? If I were senior, that would be 16 days off with 108 hours credit.
    I know someone at AA who only flew ~40 hours in both Jan and feb of this year and got paid for about 90 hours each month. No training and no vacation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz5422 View Post
    I am betting on pay raises first shortly followed by Bankruptcy. That way management can say that they gave us pay raises but AA now needs to take them away to stay competitive.

    Hence why we shouldn't be given anything up for raises.
    How soon does everyone anticipate a pay raise ?

    IMO, barring anything unforeseen and severe, a bankruptcy filing for AA isn’t likely anytime soon. Even then, it’s not a given, at least IMO. It will require a sufficient number of components for that to occur. Also, just because AA files, doesn’t mean Envoy would. Last time they did to gut contracts, but gutting Envoy pilots contract now would simply be Envoy committing Seppuku. Once any new pay rate becomes part of a CBA, it cannot unilaterally be voided without a judge to grant that via an 1113 motion (that’s not just petitioned, but actually approved by a judge) or in a Force Majeure situation.

    If new pay rates are agreed to anytime soon at Envoy, I think it highly unlikely they will threatened for the near future spanning at least a few years. Just my .02 anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdflyer View Post
    I know someone at AA who only flew ~40 hours in both Jan and feb of this year and got paid for about 90 hours each month. No training and no vacation.

    Reserves in some statuses, especially Group IV don’t fly a lot. They pick up OG on days off and can easily get paid 100 hours or more. Staffing is very tight in most statuses though and pilots are working more then ever. At least that’s the story I get from the cockpit when I’m not cooking their Pablano peppers and have time to chat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertRoss View Post
    Just flow to SWA. Flow time is 3 years for an Envoy pilot that upgrades in 1 year (easily doable, right dacuj?), then takes 2 years to get the 1000 TPIC.
    Huh, checks email again. I guess 1,000TPIC in a RJ is better than 1,000TPIC in a 767

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdflyer View Post
    I know someone at AA who only flew ~40 hours in both Jan and feb of this year and got paid for about 90 hours each month. No training and no vacation.
    Iím not speaking of hours flown, Iím speaking of hours paid. A day on reserve without a call doesnít count as a day off.

    No VC here. As far as the training, I bid QOL, which requires Training Scheduling to schedule training over the top of one of my trips so that I have no fewer days off.
    Last edited by RobertRoss; 05-31-2019 at 08:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertRoss View Post
    Iím not speaking of hours flown, Iím speaking of hours paid. A day on reserve without a call doesnít count as a day off.

    No VC here. As far as the training, I bid QOL, which requires Training Scheduling to schedule training over the top of one of my trips so that I have no fewer days off.

    How long is the upgrade? at AA it's around 6 years on the narrowbody which is something to keep in mind. How are the retirements in comparison to legacies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NO-GO-AROUND View Post
    How long is the upgrade? at AA it's around 6 years on the narrowbody which is something to keep in mind. How are the retirements in comparison to legacies?
    People upgrading now are in the 10/11 year range. But I am currently 44% up the DAL FO list after 2 years 10 months, so assuming the hiring maintains, 6/7 years seems to be the pace.

    Retirements are less. Swa is well positioned to continue to grow despite the massive industry retirements looming.
    Last edited by RobertRoss; 06-01-2019 at 08:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertRoss View Post
    People upgrading now are in the 10/11 year range. But I am currently 44% up the DAL FO list after 2 years 10 months, so assuming the hiring maintains, 6/7 years seems to be the pace.

    Retirements are less. Swa is well positioned to continue to grow despite the massive industry retirements looming.
    Somebody has been funneling kool aid. Sounds like a guy who is just jealous of guys working at AA and trying to justify a monumentally stupid decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Somebody has been funneling kool aid. Sounds like a guy who is just jealous of guys working at AA and trying to justify a monumentally stupid decision.
    Funneled kool aid is about the only thing youíre an expert on. SWA new hire pay and QOL is light years ahead of AA.
    Crawl back in your hole troll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Somebody has been funneling kool aid. Sounds like a guy who is just jealous of guys working at AA and trying to justify a monumentally stupid decision.
    "Monumentally stupid decision".......now that there is funny.

    2 years 10 months on property at SWA.

    $60K of that 401K is a rollover from my 11 years at envoy, Another $40k from a non aviation job. So $160k in just under 3 years.

    Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 4.37.49 PM.png

    2019 YTD
    Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 5.03.34 PM.png

    2018 (8 months 2nd year pay, 4 months 3rd year pay)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by RobertRoss; 06-01-2019 at 05:09 PM.

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    Pay no attention to the village idiot Robert. As Iím sure youíre well aware, he has not once ever come back with factual data to back up his yapping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Pay no attention to the village idiot Robert. As Iím sure youíre well aware, he has not once ever come back with factual data to back up his yapping.
    Heís right! Sometimes I get delirious & overwhelmed by the stress of paying $0.00 for health insurance.
    Last edited by RobertRoss; 06-02-2019 at 04:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertRoss View Post
    People upgrading now are in the 10/11 year range. But I am currently 44% up the DAL FO list after 2 years 10 months, so assuming the hiring maintains, 6/7 years seems to be the pace.

    Retirements are less. Swa is well positioned to continue to grow despite the massive industry retirements looming.

    6/7 is not bad at all. I’m sort of committed to AA bases but if I were not, SWA would def be a consideration. I also like that they have never declared bankruptcy which is HUGE for job security.
    Last edited by NO-GO-AROUND; 06-02-2019 at 05:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertRoss View Post
    "Monumentally stupid decision".......now that there is funny.

    2 years 10 months on property at SWA.

    $60K of that 401K is a rollover from my 11 years at envoy, Another $40k from a non aviation job. So $160k in just under 3 years.

    Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 4.37.49 PM.png

    2019 YTD
    Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 5.03.34 PM.png

    2018 (8 months 2nd year pay, 4 months 3rd year pay)





    DAAAAM! Looks very nice. I can see why people are not waiting for flow if they can get something like this way sooner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NO-GO-AROUND View Post
    6/7 is not bad at all. Iím sort of committed to AA bases but if I were not, SWA would def be a consideration. I also like that they have never declared bankruptcy which is HUGE for job security.
    Fair enough, however, just be sure to consider AAs track record with bases. When I was hired at AE, the bases were:

    BOS
    LGA
    JFK (not co-domiciled)
    MIA
    SJU
    ORD
    DFW
    LAX

    I feel like RDU was in there just prior to my employment, but that may have just been AA.

    When I left AE, only ORD & DFW remained. Also when I left AE, STL was an AA base. Also, Iíve heard (no idea on validity) that AAs PHX base is on the chopping block.

    At any rate, for AA, Iíd only put ORD, DFW & PHL on the ďnot going away as long as AAs in businessĒ list. SWA has bases at 2 of those 3.

    I canít say for sure if SWA has ever closed a pilot base, but my feeling is no. We did just open our 11th at LAX.

    All that said, I would not have considered SWA over AA if not for the DAL base, so I know where your are coming from.

    Food for thought.
    Last edited by RobertRoss; 06-02-2019 at 09:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertRoss View Post
    "Monumentally stupid decision".......now that there is funny.

    2 years 10 months on property at SWA.

    $60K of that 401K is a rollover from my 11 years at envoy, Another $40k from a non aviation job. So $160k in just under 3 years.

    Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 4.37.49 PM.png

    2019 YTD
    Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 5.03.34 PM.png

    2018 (8 months 2nd year pay, 4 months 3rd year pay)
    Your valid factual information vs. his baseless personal attack. It’s virtually all he does. When you have nothing, you can offer nothing.

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