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Thread: Pay Raises & Bankruptcy

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertRoss View Post
    Fair enough, however, just be sure to consider AAs track record with bases. When I was hired at AE, the bases were:

    BOS
    LGA
    JFK (not co-domiciled)
    MIA
    SJU
    ORD
    DFW
    LAX

    I feel like RDU was in there just prior to my employment, but that may have just been AA.

    When I left AE, only ORD & DFW remained. Also when I left AE, STL was an AA base. Also, Iíve heard (no idea on validity) that AAs PHX base is on the chopping block.

    At any rate, for AA, Iíd only put ORD, DFW & PHL on the ďnot going away as long as AAs in businessĒ list. SWA has bases at 2 of those 3.

    I canít say for sure if SWA has ever closed a pilot base, but my feeling is no. We did just open our 11th at LAX.

    All that said, I would not have considered SWA over AA if not for the DAL base, so I know where your are coming from.

    Food for thought.

    I would add CLT & DCA to that list as they are the 2nd and 3rd most profitable, respectively. I've also heard PHX is likely to close or be reduced but who knows. At any rate, i'm all about not commuting. It really is a different job when you live in base. I've had my share of commuting at Eagle and hope to be home based at AA.

  2. #22
    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    PHX & NY bases will close, but NY before PHX. Numbers donít lie.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Funneled kool aid is about the only thing youíre an expert on. SWA new hire pay and QOL is light years ahead of AA.
    Crawl back in your hole troll.
    Letís not get carried away here. Light years ahead of AA? From what I see, the AA FO narrow body pay scale beats SW by a good margin, 30 bucks an hour by year 3. Not to mention the 16% defined retirement contribution from day one at AA for flows. Not to mention the much greater retirement numbers coming up at AA compared to SW. Not to mention being able to fly something bigger and much better paying, than a 737 eventually. I donít see much appeal in going to SW anymore. They were the place to be back when nobody else was hiring, but not so much anymore.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by C140pilot View Post
    Let’s not get carried away here. Light years ahead of AA? From what I see, the AA FO narrow body pay scale beats SW by a good margin, 30 bucks an hour by year 3. Not to mention the 16% defined retirement contribution from day one at AA for flows. Not to mention the much greater retirement numbers coming up at AA compared to SW. Not to mention being able to fly something bigger and much better paying, than a 737 eventually. I don’t see much appeal in going to SW anymore. They were the place to be back when nobody else was hiring, but not so much anymore.
    Agree on the "not getting carried away" part. So how about some facts ?

    - SWA pilots inked a new contract in November 2016.
    - Present 12-year Group II Captain's rate (the typical benchmark for comparison) at SWA (2018) is only $4 less then AA and will be less then $1 in 2020.
    - Present 12-year Group II F/O rate at SWA in 2018 is a little over $1 more then AA and in 2020 it will be about $7 more.
    - Pension almost equal to AA.
    - MUCH better scheduling provisions including minimum days off, more days off, more flexibility, 200% for JM vs. 150% at AA, slightly better Average day then AA pilots (even with last year's improvement).
    - Better sick leave (and pay) provisions then AA pilots.
    - Longer furlough recall protection.
    - Better per diem (plus I still think they have the "3/2/1” provision with their hotels).
    - MUCH better job security then at AA (especially for junior pilots) considering present situation and outlook.

    Bottom line is that AA pilots are STILL operating under a bankruptcy contract like Envoy pilots with little hope in the future of meaningful improvement unless Parker decides to become Santa Claus. Now AA DOES have some advantages over SWA in the widebody argument if that's the flying you aspire to. Other then that, the trade-off's are quite significant as with SWA your job security is superior and your treatment FAR superior then at AA which is among the worst in the industry among the two legacies and the other LCC's. I'm sure our resident SWA guy could expand with more specifics as to the realities of SWA.

    Whoops...……...forgot profit sharing. 15% at SWA and at AA it's 1.4% slap in the face.

    When compared apples to apples (Group II) SWA blows AA away in pay (with PS) and scheduling. Just as many domicile choices too. Also, in case you were unaware, virtually the entire AAG brass just bought more AA stock for a quick "pump and dump" IMO to offset lost value over the last couple of years. Must be nice to have that financial flexibility. Keep galloping, they'd like those personal profits sooner rather then later.

    One Team-One Plan. Looks like the idea is that the "team" of horses (that's you) is being used to execute the "plan" of maximizing wealth for management.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 06-06-2019 at 10:42 AM.

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    *Current 12 yr FO is $186.39

    *12 yr FO rate caps with this contract at $197.74

    *We earn 1/10th of a SickTFP per TFP each month = 10.5 in June 19 for me = 9:12 AA hours.

    *Defined retirement = 15%

    *Profit sharing has been high (as high as 15%) lately. 10% is a dependable number.

    *Flexibility is unmatched. Iíve never had a problem getting the days off I need. I coach 2 of my sonís sports teams.

    *max 15 days of work (line holder & reserve) per month. If you work more, itís your own doing.

    *reroute that finishes 1 minute later than original schedule = 150%

    *reroute that starts 1 minute earlier than original =150%

    *90 TFP guarantee = 78:15 hours

    *89% of trips for July are 3 On/4 Off

    *Premium pay on Holidays

    *200% Junior Assignment Pay

    *11 bases. At least three more (AUS, STL & BNA) that should be bases.

    *guaranteed seat on all DH legs, even if itís the last leg of a trip (that equals A1).

    *every open trip must be run through Open Time prior to reserve assignment.

    It doesnít Suck.

    Go back a few posts and look at the total pay keeping in mind that I work less than most. I just did my medical, 309 hours flown in the last 6 months and 678 TFP in same time.

    As far as wide bodies, I have no doubt I will fly one at SWA before my career is over 26 years from now.
    Last edited by RobertRoss; 06-06-2019 at 07:18 PM.

  6. #26
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    Too bad AA keeps shrinking and posible Bankruptcy around the corner. Not to mention Upgrade Time will go back to what it used to be 15 years. Donít believe me...give it another 18 months and letís see who is right.

    One thing is certain, both are much better than Envoy, now that AAG refuses to give their pilots a pay raise.
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 06-06-2019 at 02:35 PM.

  7. #27
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    No pay raises for envoy pilots because parker needs the money so he ca buy more aag stock now that its rock bottom. I believe it may be equal to.prior to last bankruptcy.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    What happens if AAG files Bankruptcy before Envoy pilots get any pay raises?
    You'll get no pay raise and be forced to like it.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death Dealer View Post
    You'll get no pay raise and be forced to like it.
    ....and $50 says the MEC picks their noses. Another $50 says they eat it.

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