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Thread: ENVOY MEC your turn, your up

  1. #21
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    Well APA did once, you think they do it again.

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    After the latest email, the union needs to make sure Managment pays up. After talks we need to be the HIGHEST PAID regional.

    Management is in a hard place, without pay increases envoy is falling way behind all other regionals and it will start to hurt hiring numbers. The must pay up, I just hope our union holds them to it and makes management pay for breaking off negotiations last time.

    I am not holding my breath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz5422 View Post
    After the latest email, the union needs to make sure Managment pays up. After talks we need to be the HIGHEST PAID regional.

    Management is in a hard place, without pay increases envoy is falling way behind all other regionals and it will start to hurt hiring numbers. The must pay up, I just hope our union holds them to it and makes management pay for breaking off negotiations last time.

    I am not holding my breath.
    Management is no doubt asking themselves, why pay more to those who either aren’t going anywhere or who plan to stick it out until flow because AA is their dream job ? I think it’s more likely if any pay rate increases occur, it will simply be to once again solve management’s problems and not the pilots. To wit, increases only for new-hires. Besides, Envoy ALPA has already spoken. Their response to the latest regional industry developments was a milquetoast request of hope with a dash of impotent expectation.

    Remember, AAG is calling the financial shots at the WO’s and they’re strapped for cash as it is. Considering their debt and rocky revenue situation, there’s little excess left for labor at this point and since pilots are still apparently beating down the doors and lined up around the block for Envoy, it makes little sense to waste more money on pilots until absolutely necessary.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 04-07-2019 at 07:19 PM.

  4. #24
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    Psa mgt did not go the the psa mec and offer wage increases across the board WITHOUT prior approval and blessing from aag. W/O mgmt dont take a shi+ without aag permission.

    Word has it aag gave all 3 the go ahead with the rates, its envoy mgt that won't give because they want to show aag they are great. Well they are not.
    Minimum pay rates of psa across the board is required and no negotiation.
    Negotiation means we givec something up for pay increases, NO, psa gave nothing and same should be at all w/o's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Psa mgt did not go the the psa mec and offer wage increases across the board WITHOUT prior approval and blessing from aag. W/O mgmt dont take a shi+ without aag permission.

    Word has it aag gave all 3 the go ahead with the rates, its envoy mgt that won't give because they want to show aag they are great. Well they are not.
    Minimum pay rates of psa across the board is required and no negotiation.
    Negotiation means we givec something up for pay increases, NO, psa gave nothing and same should be at all w/o's.
    They likely WOULD want to demonstrate their prowess by getting a concession for any rate increase. Considering the traditional status of Envoy ALPA as invertebrates, it’s sctually not a left-field consideration.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 04-07-2019 at 07:27 PM.

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    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    They likely WOULD want to demonstrate their prowess by getting a concession for any rate increase. Considering the traditional status of Envoy ALPA as invertebrates, it’s sctually not a left-field consideration.
    Hate to agree, but all company has to do is promise to ncrease the flow, so the MEC & negotiators are guarantee to flow before 2021...and like PFM...
    everybody gets a concessionary contract & a pay raise. It is that simple!
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 04-07-2019 at 09:07 PM.

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    Only the finest union busting in this thread. Top notch. You guys all work for Glass + co or just on the weekends? Aiming for that Chief Pilot position cause you all would fit right in. Perfect material.

  8. #28
    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snippercr View Post
    Only the finest union busting in this thread. Top notch. You guys all work for Glass + co or just on the weekends? Aiming for that Chief Pilot position cause you all would fit right in. Perfect material.
    Not “Perfect Material”, just history repeating itself.

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    Nobody is “union busting”, just anticipating business as usual from our representation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snippercr View Post
    Only the finest union busting in this thread. Top notch. You guys all work for Glass + co or just on the weekends? Aiming for that Chief Pilot position cause you all would fit right in. Perfect material.
    Snip, in order to bust a union, one has to exist in the first place. Envoy has no union.....not really. It’s an “Association” and a stunningly weak one at that. If anyone could be argued to be busting a union, it’s the impotent leadership and the unconcerned, apathetic membership, not those who simply acknowledge reality on a pilot forum. In fact, this Association has actually handed over the last bastion of true Airline pilot value and the foundation of all that it rests upon.

    Seniority.

    New-hires getting rights tenured pilots don’t have and in fact, pilots not even on the seniority list. Staggering. When they handed that over to management on a Silver platter all to grease their own flow to AA, they busted what little was left of this pilot group for eternity. The chickens are gradually returning to roost and one day in the near future, the ultimate buzzard of the past will show up and start some serious pecking. When that happens, those that raised the damn thing will have no excuse to cry because it grew up and only became what it was made to be.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 04-08-2019 at 07:16 AM.

  11. #31
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    No problem, mec found where to hang its hat on. The mec says the junior pilots would take concessions, so not much to fight for. These would the the ones with all the bonus money and already 3 years ahead on the pay longevity.
    Yes envoy complains about psa, but look in the mirror, you are your worst enemy.

    The mec shi+ has begun.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    No problem, mec found where to hang its hat on. The mec says the junior pilots would take concessions, so not much to fight for. These would the the ones with all the bonus money and already 3 years ahead on the pay longevity.
    Yes envoy complains about psa, but look in the mirror, you are your worst enemy.

    The mec shi+ has begun.
    They aren't lying. A lot of the FOs I've flown with are willing to take concessions. Unreal...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sloosky View Post
    They aren't lying. A lot of the FOs I've flown with are willing to take concessions. Unreal...
    AAG has been very astute in seeking “compliant” pilots. This is both at AA and in the Eagle system. They like to see compliant behavior in ones past like volunteer work as it shows one is willing to work for nothing and one is willing to place others interests before their own. Now, both of those are indeed fine qualities (although the former being debatable depending on circumstance), but people like that are less prone to become militant unionists or see value in defending labor agreements or putting themselves at risk in maximizing the attainment of better ones.

    This is what you see. At AA, it’s also in play. Recently, the APA sent out sky blue lanyards that state the slogan du jour of “It’s Time”, meaning it’s time for AA management to live up to their promises in changing culture for the better, fully implementing the multiple contractual provisions that they still have not 6+ years after agreement and providing a QWL and compensation package that matches industry leaders like Delta.

    Months after this initiative, the demonstration is exceptionally poor with the majority not on-board with many even continuing to wear their “American Airlines” (management) lanyard. This is not just the new and compliant, but the older, risk averse and apathetic. Look at Envoy.......I recall the video of perhaps 6-9 months ago that showed the gung-ho new-hire class compliantly performing like trained chimpanzee’s wearing Envoy shirts and AA lanyards jumping around like Kansas City cheerleaders up and down some staircase. On the surface it was laughable, but scratching deeper it is genius. Clearly, management friendly psychological indoctrination is a new-hire training component just like aircraft specific and ops training. Get ‘em in the crib, so to speak.

    Pretty smart actually. For the pilot group’s at AA and Envoy though, ultimately disastrous. Union busting has become a much more sophisticated effort then what the simple-minded assume exists only at the superficial visual level. The most effective tools are actually subconscious and require one to look outside the box and read between the lines. Ultimately, the AA pilot group of tomorrow will look just like the Envoy pilot group of today essentially being spineless, apathetic and impotent in achieving anything but rank mediocrity in their working reality and only that which their management feels in necessary for their interests as opposed to the pilots. Actually, they are already there, it’s just many either aren’t paying attention or don’t care.

    It will be the ultimate irony of those at Envoy thinking they are being flow-paroled to somewhere that is the antithesis of Envoy, when in reality, it will be a mirror image with the exception of pay rates.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 04-08-2019 at 09:05 PM.

  14. #34
    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sloosky View Post
    They aren't lying. A lot of the FOs I've flown with are willing to take concessions. Unreal...
    This is a fact. Lots of emails to the Union willing to bend over. 🐓 🐓 🐓 However Flaps & Radios for 4 days might build some character.

    FM1
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    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 04-08-2019 at 08:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    This is a fact. Lots of emails to the Union willing to bend over.    However Flaps & Radios for 4 days might build some character.

    FM1
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    Hahahah...I like it!

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Nobody is “union busting”, just anticipating business as usual from our representation.

    They don't have to... they already did. Fired the two biggest union thorns in their side and nobody is ever oing to fight them that hard again. Not if they like their job.
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