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Thread: American Airlines has refused to continue any negotiations

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    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    American Airlines has refused to continue any negotiations


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    resulting in the possibility of "eliminating thousands of more jobs," and by "obliterating members' ranks."

    American Airlines' management who continue to stone-wall negotiations and refuse to negotiate in good faith...

    https://amp.azcentral.com/amp/3302645002
    “I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.”

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    Essentially giving the finger to all front-line labor. Actually, I can’t blame them. None of them have any leverage right now, so why care ? The important point for Envoy pilots to note is when they flow, they don’t flow to a different philosophy of employee treatment. It appears they believe all they have to do is refer to front-line employees as “team members” to turn AA into Delta from a customer service perspective.

    AA is not, nor will ever be Delta. It does not, nor will ever have a Delta product and does not, nor will have a Delta work environment to include compensation. Virtually ALL front-line labor is now trailing the industry leaders and is now in LCC territory. The can will be kicked for years or until AAG management’s back is against the wall for whatever reason. AA’s debt is monsterous, their upcoming bills large and their profits substantially underperforming previous claims, so when it comes to competitive compensation for labor, AAG is broke.

    It is what it is and IMO, it will get worse before it gets better.

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    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    What happens to negotiations and contracts in the event AAG files BK?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    What happens to negotiations and contracts in the event AAG files BK?
    Bring out the shredder..............

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    Fuel for the fire

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    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    Billions of dollars in payments due very soon.
    Does anybody has the amounts and due years of these payments?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    What happens to negotiations and contracts in the event AAG files BK?
    No one can say for sure, but in the case of AA it’s a virtual certainty the A-fund will be flushed to the PBGC and highly likely they go for a scope kill and other efficiencies, like equipment bidding restrictions similar to Envoy. They might ask more for scope then they expect or get though. There would be a vigorous fight though in the 1113 process. Likewise, a certain casualty would be any future functional relationship between the pilots and management. In fact, if any reorganization requires a sign off by the pilots, they would likely resist any agreements signaling future investors ZERO stability would exist in AA for future investment.

    Then again, if Parker found a way to divide and conquer, it might work. It’s just theory though. To wit, since at least half the pilots don’t have an A-fund, they might try to drive a wedge between the have and have not’s by offering straight cash to the have not’s to get them on-board. Likewise, most of the pilot group is older (mid 50’s or older) and might be able to be bought off on scope, since it wouldn’t impact most. The young and junior of any pilot list are always the fodder and most especially at AA, if one looks at history. Envoy pilots know all too well what happens when one is offered two choices, one bad and the other worse.

    At any rate, AA would be finished regarding any chance of being a true competitor to the industry leaders, but Parker doesn’t seem to care about a quality airline product, but instead an inexpensive one on bottom line costs. Heck, most future flows don’t care anyway as they don’t seem to care what AA has become, just that it’s better then Envoy and the jets are shiny.......well, at least some of them.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 03-30-2019 at 06:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    Billions of dollars in payments due very soon.
    Does anybody has the amounts and due years of these payments?

    The numbers I’ve heard for 2019 are conservatively a combined 1.5-1.8 billion (range) for debt servicing and pension contributions. 2020 is supposedly higher. What were 2018 profits, about 1.6 billion or something ? Parker trumpeted a 90+% increase in 2019 profits, so we shall see. For reference, Parker previously spouted “bad” year profits of 3 billion and “good” years at 7 billion. The Economy was at max last year and clearly, Parker is whiffing in his prognostications, so take it for what it’s worth.

    Maybe he will pull a rabbit out of the hat, but it’s tough to see how given all the info. One thing is certain and considering that not only the pilots have their hands out for an industry leading contract, but the mechanics and FSC’s too (and aggregator is the F/A’s who have a “me too” clause that would drive their costs up too with other agreements). That will cost upward of a billion/year (or more ?). Considering the debt, the profits and the future expenses, where’s the money ? The BOD and industry analysts who are pro-business couldn’t care less about labor’s complaints about sub-standard compensation even when they DO have the money. When they don’t ?

    Welcome to Walmart.......and a Walmart that seems to be going broke despite making over a billion/year.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 03-30-2019 at 06:18 PM.

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    It’s not too late to save yourselves. Flow to AA should be your last option only settled for once all other options are exhausted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertRoss View Post
    It’s not too late to save yourselves. Flow to AA should be your last option only settled for once all other options are exhausted.
    History proves the for the most part, the latest influx will be no different then those that came before them. They assume all will work itself out or rationalize their own mediocrity. Hey........someone has to be 6th (and falling). Most have become complacent and will not become assertive in their career planning and a few will eventually take their turn trying to educate those new who will in turn inevitably repeat the cycle once again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertRoss View Post
    It’s not too late to save yourselves. Flow to AA should be your last option only settled for once all other options are exhausted.
    Than explain the swa guys in NH class at AA? Is it the decade long upgrade to OAK? Bloods or Crips?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Layman View Post
    Than explain the swa guys in NH class at AA? Is it the decade long upgrade to OAK? Bloods or Crips?
    People make mistakes.

    Ya know, the same explanation as to how AA gets anyone in a NH class.
    Last edited by RobertRoss; 04-01-2019 at 05:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertRoss View Post
    People make mistakes.

    Ya know, the same explanation as to how AA gets anyone in a NH class.
    If they knew the mistake they’ve made...they would go back to SW. Hope they are really young, but soon (2021 and thereafter) they will find out. Is not their fault, is just lack of knowledge. Good luck
    to all NH and future flows from Envoy, PDT & PSA.

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    I will have a BK burger hold the pickle this time around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    History proves the for the most part, the latest influx will be no different then those that came before them. They assume all will work itself out or rationalize their own mediocrity. Hey........someone has to be 6th (and falling). Most have become complacent and will not become assertive in their career planning and a few will eventually take their turn trying to educate those new who will in turn inevitably repeat the cycle once again.
    You keep tossing grenades into this forum but every single one for 3 years now has been a dud. Should probably check with your supplier and figure out why you keep buying boxes full of duds.

    I've single handedly ran off a few of the naysayers here (i.e. 360DD, schmuck, snippercr) and others. It WILL happen eventually. I will run you off into some other forum neverland where you can beotch to your hearts content. But not here. Only truth will reign here. Yes, cujo is on the list too. Perhaps you and he and enjoy 4pm dinners in the cafeteria of your rest home.
    Last edited by Dacuj; 04-02-2019 at 09:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    You keep tossing grenades into this forum but every single one for 3 years now has been a dud. Should probably check with your supplier and figure out why you keep buying boxes full of duds.

    I've single handedly ran off a few of the naysayers here (i.e. 360DD, schmuck, snippercr) and others. It WILL happen eventually. I will run you off into some other forum neverland where you can beotch to your hearts content. But not here. Only truth will reign here. Yes, cujo is on the list too. Perhaps you and he and enjoy 4pm dinners in the cafeteria of your rest home.
    This sounds like a threat. Tred carefully, my friend. Forum members have a right to express differing opinions. Some beside yourself disagree with me, but don’t make threats. This isn’t YOUR forum and nowhere are you granted the right to “run off” other members (or the moderator) simply because you dislike them or they don’t subscribe to your agenda.

    As for my “grenades” as you call them, I didn’t manufacture them, they are demonstrable concerns that are real for AA and thus Envoy flows. STILL waiting for a single post of substance from you and threats don’t count.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 04-02-2019 at 11:02 AM.

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    Dacuj, you ran no one off, dick less. They have moved on, whereas you are like a high school grad who keeps hanging out at the high school 5 years later. Pathetic.

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    Pot meet kettle.
    Grenades?
    You’ve dropped more duds than anyone here to date.

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    Sorry Dacuj if I don’t have any “grenades”, the only thing I have is a 📦 full of facts and a label that reads...
    “WARNING 2021 & thereafter”
    Tic,Toc...The flow will ✋ 🛑 stop, for all the WO & NH. Stick around in this forum for 21 more months, and you will see that I wasn’t bluffing.
    Just Facts
    🍻

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    “I've single handedly ran off a few of the naysayers here”
    More delusional banter from the laughing stock of this forum.

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