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Thread: Life at the other wholly owned

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    PDT crews scheduled to work 5 or more days a week is not uncommon. Morale there is about the same as at envoy.
    PSA Pilots are growing frustrated with numerous LOAs suddenly appearing without much forewarnings. Some are vocal about the flow language being altered and the goal posts being moved. Sound familiar anyone?
    Morale there is also comparable to envoy.
    People in the know are starting to attempt to educate the young and impressionable about the potential pitfalls of indentured servitude at AAG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    PDT crews scheduled to work 5 or more days a week is not uncommon. Morale there is about the same as at envoy.
    PSA Pilots are growing frustrated with numerous LOAs suddenly appearing without much forewarnings. Some are vocal about the flow language being altered and the goal posts being moved. Sound familiar anyone?
    Morale there is also comparable to envoy.
    People in the know are starting to attempt to educate the young and impressionable about the potential pitfalls of indentured servitude at AAG.
    The question is, what is the common denominator in all the wholly-owned regionals in this relationship ?

    It seems obvious to me, that is where the answer lies. When you flow to AA, you are just flowing to that answer. As such, little will change in philosophy about your value. Widget here, cog there, it’s all the same.

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    CHEAP LABOR and contracts that are used in the bathroom

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    This place was a mistake. Almost a year on reserve. Almost two more years getting my 1,000 hours because of displacement to a different fleet type, then more reserve and low credit-flight hour lines. Finally upgraded and went back on reserve not flying in a Base thousands of miles from home in the most expensive city we have to live in. My extra pay went to decent housing. If it weren’t for “Hi-Value Aviators” being sucked in by bonus checks I’d have sat reserve even longer and would still be stuck in that mess. Flow is actually starting to look like a possibility if I’m not hired at U or D first. I’ve begun networking hard and attending job fairs since AA has become my last choice after working for AAG. This is not a good regional to work for, the mainline guys I met jumpseating to/from NY all detailed how their job is deteriorating daily, and if I had to do it again I’d have really worked to get in with Endeavor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieBucket View Post
    This place was a mistake. Almost a year on reserve. Almost two more years getting my 1,000 hours because of displacement to a different fleet type, then more reserve and low credit-flight hour lines. Finally upgraded and went back on reserve not flying in a Base thousands of miles from home in the most expensive city we have to live in. My extra pay went to decent housing. If it weren’t for “Hi-Value Aviators” being sucked in by bonus checks I’d have sat reserve even longer and would still be stuck in that mess. Flow is actually starting to look like a possibility if I’m not hired at U or D first. I’ve begun networking hard and attending job fairs since AA has become my last choice after working for AAG. This is not a good regional to work for, the mainline guys I met jumpseating to/from NY all detailed how their job is deteriorating daily, and if I had to do it again I’d have really worked to get in with Endeavor.
    Again, there is a common denominator that’s still waiting for Parker to “build trust” over time and apparently that time has yet to begin.

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    The AW/US folks tried to warn APA that if they hitched their wagon to Druncle Dougweiser, they’d learn first hand what the phrase “We got DP’d again” means.
    Hint: It doesn’t stand for Doug Parker.

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    Dont fell sorry for unions at American, they knew and were told by us air employees but dougie came with money and bought off the union employees with quick cash upfront but with weak details for after. Saying goes you made your bed now lie in it.

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    "Go Ugly Early", I think AMR went "Ugly Late" and with the wrong BroAAd.

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    Look at Dougie’s history prior to the merge. Two failed attempts of making a run at the other two legacies.

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    Reading APC, I must disagree with the notion once again put forward there (and here before too) that if Envoy management "starts messing with the flow" by whatever method, any mass exodus of pilots will occur. The latest assertion is in regards to using the presently reported draconian disciplinary system to deliberately impede flow for pilots. I think history proves that once a pilot is here long enough to be getting close to flow, they have too much invested (at least in their minds) and will not leave for any pasture they wouldn't anyway. That means no lateral moves in anger or frustration. But, I think that's the beauty of the situation for Envoy...…..management KNOWS that. Sure some might bail early to other regionals, but for those more then 2-3 years in, only a premier legacy or LCC would be a consideration.


    Make no mistake, under the right situation, some WOULD bail, but most will not. History proves the psychological disease I mentioned before sometimes called CPS (Career Paralysis Syndrome) is in play at Envoy. Most are along for the ride and are not treating their present situation as one that truly has significant risks and so they rationalize everything will turn out they way they originally planned it to. Plenty of pilots before them have fallen victim to this (myself included), so the next group will have plenty of company. Too much sugar in the flow bottle now and most are hooked to the high and will keep running the wheel as long as at least a few drips of sugar water are within sight. But, when the sugar water spigot runs dry, then what ?


    A scene also from the past of despair, anger and frustration. Few left then either, they just grunted and plowed ahead hoping for better days and promises of future rainbows and their associated pots of gold. It was enough for most then. History...………..it offers so much, but so few pay attention to it.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 03-01-2019 at 01:17 PM.

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    Great fact of truth, no one wanted to be near dougie and gang except american airline unions. Now they dance to the tunes from his flute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Great fact of truth, no one wanted to be near dougie and gang except american airline unions. Now they dance to the tunes from his flute.
    Primarily the APA leadership. They conned their own membership saying what a good deal it was. Now, they are bankrupt of leverage for the time being. But, the same thing happened here when ALPA convinced the membership to take concessions based on a non-existent 1113. Here was the Envoy pilot group ALREADY well within the competitive landscape whose labor costs were completely sustainable and had NOTHING to do with AMR's bankruptcy situation convinced...……….convinced by their own union leadership they had to take concessions to make them even cheaper. In all likelihood, had AMR attempted a real 1113 with the court, it would have failed for the very reasons it wasn't the catalyst for the bankruptcy filing or even a component and Envoy pilot labor costs were ALREADY actually cheaper then many of their competitors regional pilots.


    But, this too is and should be a historical lesson for both pilot groups. The next time, IMO history will AGAIN repeat itself at both locations and also just like history, most pilots will be clueless about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Primarily the APA leadership. They conned their own membership saying what a good deal it was. Now, they are bankrupt of leverage for the time being. But, the same thing happened here when ALPA convinced the membership to take concessions based on a non-existent 1113. Here was the Envoy pilot group ALREADY well within the competitive landscape whose labor costs were completely sustainable and had NOTHING to do with AMR's bankruptcy situation convinced...……….convinced by their own union leadership they had to take concessions to make them even cheaper. In all likelihood, had AMR attempted a real 1113 with the court, it would have failed for the very reasons it wasn't the catalyst for the bankruptcy filing or even a component and Envoy pilot labor costs were ALREADY actually cheaper then many of their competitors regional pilots.


    But, this too is and should be a historical lesson for both pilot groups. The next time, IMO history will AGAIN repeat itself at both locations and also just like history, most pilots will be clueless about it.
    Yep. Like you. Clueless Joe(y)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Yep. Like you. Clueless Joe(y)
    It angers you Chris that I am willing to acknowledge the mistakes of the past including my own, so others might learn from them, yes ?

    But that’s what we know you want in others, Chris.........cluelessness. As with all grifters, your whole scam is based on that foundation. I’m sorry you have failed so miserably in your efforts, my poor friend. Have you considered that might be one of the foundations of your deviant behavior ?

    Just a thought......

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    Is Chris a CP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldrebel View Post
    Is Chris a CP?
    No, “Chris” is not a CP.

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    Beagle you are correct about the fake 1113 and the corrupt mec. Even when alpa national was approached they looked the other way, again.

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    Joey?!
    You’re definitely barking up the wrong tree there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    PDT crews scheduled to work 5 or more days a week is not uncommon. Morale there is about the same as at envoy.
    PSA Pilots are growing frustrated with numerous LOAs suddenly appearing without much forewarnings. Some are vocal about the flow language being altered and the goal posts being moved. Sound familiar anyone?
    Morale there is also comparable to envoy.
    People in the know are starting to attempt to educate the young and impressionable about the potential pitfalls of indentured servitude at AAG.
    Seeing as PSA and PDT shouldn't even have flow, that shouldnt even be a discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Reading APC, I must disagree with the notion once again put forward there (and here before too) that if Envoy management "starts messing with the flow" by whatever method, any mass exodus of pilots will occur. The latest assertion is in regards to using the presently reported draconian disciplinary system to deliberately impede flow for pilots. I think history proves that once a pilot is here long enough to be getting close to flow, they have too much invested (at least in their minds) and will not leave for any pasture they wouldn't anyway. That means no lateral moves in anger or frustration. But, I think that's the beauty of the situation for Envoy...…..management KNOWS that. Sure some might bail early to other regionals, but for those more then 2-3 years in, only a premier legacy or LCC would be a consideration.


    Make no mistake, under the right situation, some WOULD bail, but most will not. History proves the psychological disease I mentioned before sometimes called CPS (Career Paralysis Syndrome) is in play at Envoy. Most are along for the ride and are not treating their present situation as one that truly has significant risks and so they rationalize everything will turn out they way they originally planned it to. Plenty of pilots before them have fallen victim to this (myself included), so the next group will have plenty of company. Too much sugar in the flow bottle now and most are hooked to the high and will keep running the wheel as long as at least a few drips of sugar water are within sight. But, when the sugar water spigot runs dry, then what ?


    A scene also from the past of despair, anger and frustration. Few left then either, they just grunted and plowed ahead hoping for better days and promises of future rainbows and their associated pots of gold. It was enough for most then. History...………..it offers so much, but so few pay attention to it.
    BIueSideUp in particular is dreaming. Actually, it’s more of wishful thinking. Actually, the flow spigot to AA IS scheduled to be suddenly closed by almost 50% soon and why ?

    Because it’s contractual !

    No one will leave because of it though.

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