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Thread: In 60 Days...

  1. #1
    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    In 60 Days...


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    This is a standard paragraph, to finish any email from Your MEC telling what YOU want to hear.

    “We will continue to advocate on your behalf to the Company. Unfortunately, our management team fails to recognize the benefit that long needed improvements to our paychecks and quality of life could have on schedules, pilot recruitment, and morale.”
    Blah, Blah, Blah...

    It is clear what company desires...

    “Company chooses to pursue cost savings at our pilots' expense...”

    “...a Company representative threatened ongoing negotiations by demanding...as a precondition for continued negotiations...in exchange for keeping reserve talks open.”

    Why? Because they know that our Union in 60 days will go back begging and willing to resume talks in order to protect their own flow.

    “It has become apparent during recent negotiations that the Company has no intention of providing our pilot group with any significant reserve system improvements in the foreseeable future.”

    So why is ALPA bothering and wasting your dues?

    Keeping pace with rising wages is not Doug Parker’s flight plan.

    Mr. Parker’s attitude is that the fastest way to turn the company around, is to reduce labor costs.

    His #1 objective is to cut costs to make a profit. Now is time to provoke our unions.

    Parker is going to use the system to deplete union resources. Is just a way to keep unions busy, off guard and divert their attention.

    Now, seat back relax and watch ENY ALPA working for the company.
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 01-28-2019 at 11:13 AM.

  2. #2
    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    55 Days until your Union goes running back to the company willing to help management, in exchange for their flow...
    And the countdown continues...
    Tic,Toc....
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 02-01-2019 at 03:05 AM.

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    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    Company’s next move. Increase the flow to all pilots after the Protected Pilots. This way ENY MEC will look good in front of the pilots they represent and company gets the concessions they want. Suddenly the contract changes that were unacceptable to the association, will be acceptable. A WIN-WIN for everybody, except for the pilots, that are projected to flow after 2021. Business as usual.
    AWSOME bait. And you will see how it works. Tic,Toc....
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 02-04-2019 at 07:31 AM.

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    Talk to yourself much?

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    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    What he said has happened 3 time before, and has a good chance happening again. But there will be a price to pay.

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    History seems to always repeat itself here. The sad fact here is that each and every time this happens, the chance of ever seeing any improvements be it QOL changes or increases in compensation is pushed farther and farther away. The industry is due for another shake up and AAG is waiting for it to happen. Once it does they’ll be sure to try and rush stuff through at the bargaining table.
    Seen it before.
    Wash, rinse, repeat.
    Last edited by Sirsnacksalot; 02-04-2019 at 09:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    What he said has happened 3 time before, and has a good chance happening again. But there will be a price to pay.
    Pitting pilots against each other is a well worn tactic by management (as well as certain sycophants, lackey's and lapdog's thereof we know here). You can always get one segment of the pilot group to throw another segment under the bus with the right circumstances, you just have to manufacture those circumstances........and of course, play to the interests of the majority segment. For those flowing, if you think I’m talking about Envoy like others here who (correctly) note the same thing, I’m not. I’m talking about AA.

    At AA, it’s almost always the senior who throw the junior under the bus and guess where most Envoy flows are in that equation ? Remember at AA, most pilots are at or nearing the end of their careers, are WELL behind their peers in compensation and have lost hundreds of thousands to millions in pay and pension in just the last 5 years. They will be extremely risk averse and will not make any more sacrifice to either place excessive benefit (or protection) to the junior in any future contract or sacrifice to minimize stagnation, detriment or even furlough in any situations that might warrant such moves like fragmentation or scope collapse resulting in transfer of Group II flying to the regional network or to Group I at mainline.

    History proves those who rationalized throwing others under the bus in their past like the hungry flow wannabes at Envoy and especially Envoy ALPA have repeatedly done to the “lifers” here will howl in despair should another subsegment (the majority) at AA not consider their needs first. “Unity” is a fine slogan, but should management put the correct gun to the heads of the AA pilot group, the senior will not take the bullet. The young, hungry and historically clueless will have completely forgotten their own rationalizations of the past when it was them “doing onto others” for increased self-benefit. Karma is a beotch and it is very likely future events will result in the AA pilot group being divided by management and will have to pick one of two unpleasant choices where one of the two seniority (longevity) subsegments will lose and majority vote rules.

    The clear majority at that time will still be those more senior over 55. Nothing new as that’s what pilots do and especially at AA, have done. Pilots have always “eaten their young” at AA to save themselves from starvation and history is ripe to repeat itself, it’s just most of the new, young and hungry flows have had no interest in being students of history and so it will indeed be a shock when it becomes they who are sold out. As Fat Bastard says.........

    Get in my belly !
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 02-04-2019 at 07:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    Company’s next move. Increase the flow to all pilots after the Protected Pilots. This way ENY MEC will look good in front of the pilots they represent and company gets the concessions they want. Suddenly the contract changes that were unacceptable to the association, will be acceptable. A WIN-WIN for everybody, except for the pilots, that are projected to flow after 2021. Business as usual.
    AWSOME bait. And you will see how it works. Tic,Toc....
    Been telling newer guys to be cautious when the protective pilots leave cause they’ll come at them for flow language like we (protective pilots) originally got in exchange for concessions.

  9. #9
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    And the mec will sileniently lead the charge in favor for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkvisual View Post
    Been telling newer guys to be cautious when the protective pilots leave cause they’ll come at them for flow language like we (protective pilots) originally got in exchange for concessions.
    Which is why there's no need to negotiate improvements now. Wait till the next group of the "empty-handed" (flow @15/month) begin and then leverage new flow rates for all as long as they get the concessions they want. The empty-handed will not jeopardize the very lollipop that lured them into the vipers room and so they will lunge at any deal that lets them save their lollipop and even dip it in a bit of sugar.

    Look for new rates (low) for "larger" aircraft. Whack scope, the flow stops and the stage is set. Easy, peasy….and history repeats itself once again. Management has it easier here then cavemen.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 02-04-2019 at 01:27 PM.

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    On a related note, rumor is the first meeting between APA negotiators and management didn’t go well with an apparent lack of sincerity from AA management in diving seriously into even the more ancillary contract issues like hotels.

    The can-kicking has begun.......

    P.S. This should give dacuj and his anti-pilot “collaboration” chums a warm and fuzzy. Too bad he’s clueless as to the fact it is they who are likely to get hosed worse then many others.

  12. #12
    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    ENY ALPA, trying to provoke management to bring them back to the table, so they can have another chance to protect their flow. 45 days left, and the countdown continues.

    Tic,Toc...

    February 8th, 2019
    Fellow Pilots,

    Following the recent cessation of negotiations regarding our reserve rules, we feel it is important to reiterate the basics of reserve pilots' rights and responsibilities. Also, we are currently working on a more in-depth reserve guide which will be available soon. Once that guide is complete, we will distribute it to the pilot group and post a link to it on the Envoy ALPA website.

    Company is not interested in negotiations, just wasting union time & resources(your dues).
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 02-09-2019 at 01:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    ENY ALPA, trying to provoke management and bring them back to the table, so they can have another chance to protect their flow. 45 days left, and the countdown continues.

    Tic,Toc...

    February 8th, 2019
    Fellow Pilots,

    Following the recent cessation of negotiations regarding our reserve rules, we feel it is important to reiterate the basics of reserve pilots' rights and responsibilities. Also, we are currently working on a more in-depth reserve guide which will be available soon. Once that guide is complete, we will distribute it to the pilot group and post a link to it on the Envoy ALPA website.

    Company is not interested in negotiations, just wasting union time & resources(your dues).
    I predict aggressive treatment should pilots defend their contract, perhaps even a hostage or two under the right circumstances. “Fly it and grieve it” will be the standard first move. Play another card like fatigue and then I think they’ll double down. Hostage taking tends to work at instilling fear.

    IMO, just another of the many red flags indicating 2019 could be a messy year for AA and Envoy as labor relations continue their deep stall possibly going into a flat spin.

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    I hope no one is single engine taxing during negotiations. Remember that apu is much better at keeping the cabin warm or cool than than engines at idle. We are responsible to keep our customers as comfortable as we can

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    I have always worked under the second precept.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdflyer View Post
    I hope no one is single engine taxing during negotiations. Remember that apu is much better at keeping the cabin warm or cool than than engines at idle. We are responsible to keep our customers as comfortable as we can
    Birds in vicinity of airport should trigger APU on from surface through 10,000 and again on way back down. Dual engine failure would be bad enough without electrical emergency loss of screens/instruments too. Safety first.
    __________________________________________________ __

  17. #17
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    36 days to go, and crew room visits begins. ALPA must be cooking something to protect their flow. But is a secret. Tic,toc...

  18. #18
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    Let's see, pay cut, premium pay give away, no more vacation, or PBS. Which ever or combination of, will cause the most laughter at envoy h.q. They have the mec by the shortest of short hairs.
    If life stinks now, just wait. Follow the soap opera at the other w/o just to get an idea of what's coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Let's see, pay cut, premium pay give away, no more vacation, or PBS. Which ever or combination of, will cause the most laughter at envoy h.q. They have the mec by the shortest of short hairs.
    If life stinks now, just wait. Follow the soap opera at the other w/o just to get an idea of what's coming.
    What am I missing ? Has the MEC said they are going to unilaterally accept new concessions without the vote of the pilots ?

  20. #20
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    It is the only way. Will be in emergency meeting, closed door. The mec will vote without input from pilots as the alpa bylaws and mec manual allow.
    Good things are coming, if you are aag management.
    Pessimism all about daily. Like watching mindless drones, which is exactly what aag wants.

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