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Thread: Doug Parker Masterpiece. His next move.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Not enough
    Yup.

    History proves Delta tends lead and AA tends to follow. AA could announce tomorrow (which wouldn’t surprise me) something similar, but I think it would be a feeble copycat effort with minimal effect only further demonstrating their inability to master innovation. No vision, zero inspiration and dysfunctional leadership means lackluster results guaranteed. Maybe it’s now in their best interest to get to bankruptcy rationalization ASAP ?

    I mean really........it’s beginning to look ridiculous.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 07-02-2019 at 09:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Yup.

    History proves Delta tends lead and AA tends to follow. AA could announce tomorrow (which wouldn’t surprise me) something similar, but I think it would be a feeble copycat effort with minimal effect only further demonstrating their inability to master innovation. No vision, zero inspiration and dysfunctional leadership means lackluster results guaranteed. Maybe it’s now in their best interest to get to bankruptcy rationalization ASAP ?

    I mean really........it’s beginning to look ridiculous.
    The only thing AA leads in is advertising being the first to have a flight with an all LGBTQ crew. They only care about the non essential sh!t, while Delta is truly leading the pack and operating on another level.

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    Notice if you will that the Towne Crier and his band of company water carriers has been silent for the most part on the subject of where the SS AAG is headed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Yup.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post

    History proves Delta tends lead and AA tends to follow. AA could announce tomorrow (which wouldn’t surprise me) something similar, but I think it would be a feeble copycat effort with minimal effect only further demonstrating their inability to master innovation. No vision, zero inspiration and dysfunctional leadership means lackluster results guaranteed. Maybe it’s now in their best interest to get to bankruptcy rationalization ASAP ?

    I mean really........it’s beginning to look ridiculous.


    For what it's worth, I rode a Delta flight the other day with one of their DALPA higher ups in the front left seat... and an Eagle guy that was one of my NY pilots way back when.
    They aren't happy either. However, I will start by saying the things they aren't happy about are not the typical our pay stinks, the retirement isn't enough or things like that. They're upset over the QOL while at work. Small things that never had to be negotiated into the CBA because Delta just did them for the pilots have slowly been eroded. Here's an example: They still get crew meals, but it's based upon duty time, not individual leg length or time of day. So, you can fly a ATL to DCA sit 4 hours and then fly a DCA to ATL day trip. Due to the duty day, you will get a crew meal on one of those flights. You can do a LAS-BOS for 5 hrs and not get a crew meal because of the shorter duty day. Other complaints revolve around schedules not having a break built in for you to get a sit down meal during the day. The standard, well just call and take what you need when you need it is the standard reply, and it works right up until the CP starts asking why you're the only one delaying flights.
    So, while the big ticket items are certainly better at big D, both the senior union guy and the former Eagle guy state that all is not well, and animosity is building on both sides.
    I participated in the last membership meeting at my place, which covers all the airlines in teamsters 1224. Lots of issues at Atlas and Southern obviously, along with ABX. The big complaint from our group was the crew meals have not been as good as they initially were right after the new contract was signed. I think the steak and chicken choices are about the same with less fancy packaging. The salmon has been missing though, and it was great. Other than that the only concerns going forward were improving scope, and improving retirement. They expect the shortage to do the heavy lifting for raises. We have three new (new to us they are former AA birds) B767 coming online. The first one N389AA has been renumbered to N432AX and should be online by now having had a complete strip down and interior change. The first 3 777F's from Amazon went somewhere else, so for the time being we still are passenger only and not in the Amazon whipsaw game.

    Anyway, my point is pilots (no matter which airline) are never happy and always complain. It's a complicated matter of evaluating what the chief complaints are to determine the health of the pilot group and airline management relationship. Our problems are minor, Delta's problems are slightly more but still minor nuisance type stuff. The things happening at AA/ENY are deeply institutional and outright punitive, indicative of severe animosity on both sides bordering on outright contempt and disgust. That is not good for any airline.
    Last edited by Cujo665; 07-03-2019 at 09:31 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post


    For what it's worth, I rode a Delta flight the other day with one of their DALPA higher ups in the front left seat... and an Eagle guy that was one of my NY pilots way back when.
    They aren't happy either. However, I will start by saying the things they aren't happy about are not the typical our pay stinks, the retirement isn't enough or things like that. They're upset over the QOL while at work. Small things that never had to be negotiated into the CBA because Delta just did them for the pilots have slowly been eroded. Here's an example: They still get crew meals, but it's based upon duty time, not individual leg length or time of day. So, you can fly a ATL to DCA sit 4 hours and then fly a DCA to ATL day trip. Due to the duty day, you will get a crew meal on one of those flights. You can do a LAS-BOS for 5 hrs and not get a crew meal because of the shorter duty day. Other complaints revolve around schedules not having a break built in for you to get a sit down meal during the day. The standard, well just call and take what you need when you need it is the standard reply, and it works right up until the CP starts asking why you're the only one delaying flights.
    So, while the big ticket items are certainly better at big D, both the senior union guy and the former Eagle guy state that all is not well, and animosity is building on both sides.
    I participated in the last membership meeting at my place, which covers all the airlines in teamsters 1224. Lots of issues at Atlas and Southern obviously, along with ABX. The big complaint from our group was the crew meals have not been as good as they initially were right after the new contract was signed. I think the steak and chicken choices are about the same with less fancy packaging. The salmon has been missing though, and it was great. Other than that the only concerns going forward were improving scope, and improving retirement. They expect the shortage to do the heavy lifting for raises. We have three new (new to us they are former AA birds) B767 coming online. The first one N389AA has been renumbered to N432AX and should be online by now having had a complete strip down and interior change. The first 3 777F's from Amazon went somewhere else, so for the time being we still are passenger only and not in the Amazon whipsaw game.

    Anyway, my point is pilots (no matter which airline) are never happy and always complain. It's a complicated matter of evaluating what the chief complaints are to determine the health of the pilot group and airline management relationship. Our problems are minor, Delta's problems are slightly more but still minor nuisance type stuff. The things happening at AA/ENY are deeply institutional and outright punitive, indicative of severe animosity on both sides bordering on outright contempt and disgust. That is not good for any airline.
    Understood, but if Delta pilots chief complaints are about crew meal logistics, then things can't be that bad. Yes, no airline is perfect and Delta is no exception, but Delta's issues with labor are extremely minor in comparison to AA and if any airline needs its front-line labor force firing on all cylinders, it's one with 22+ billion in debt and a steeply declining profit metric in the most robust economy in decades. Delta's relationship with labor is not impacting the bottom line whereas AA's is crippling it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post


    For what it's worth, I rode a Delta flight the other day with one of their DALPA higher ups in the front left seat... and an Eagle guy that was one of my NY pilots way back when.
    They aren't happy either. However, I will start by saying the things they aren't happy about are not the typical our pay stinks, the retirement isn't enough or things like that. They're upset over the QOL while at work. Small things that never had to be negotiated into the CBA because Delta just did them for the pilots have slowly been eroded. Here's an example: They still get crew meals, but it's based upon duty time, not individual leg length or time of day. So, you can fly a ATL to DCA sit 4 hours and then fly a DCA to ATL day trip. Due to the duty day, you will get a crew meal on one of those flights. You can do a LAS-BOS for 5 hrs and not get a crew meal because of the shorter duty day. Other complaints revolve around schedules not having a break built in for you to get a sit down meal during the day. The standard, well just call and take what you need when you need it is the standard reply, and it works right up until the CP starts asking why you're the only one delaying flights.
    So, while the big ticket items are certainly better at big D, both the senior union guy and the former Eagle guy state that all is not well, and animosity is building on both sides.
    I participated in the last membership meeting at my place, which covers all the airlines in teamsters 1224. Lots of issues at Atlas and Southern obviously, along with ABX. The big complaint from our group was the crew meals have not been as good as they initially were right after the new contract was signed. I think the steak and chicken choices are about the same with less fancy packaging. The salmon has been missing though, and it was great. Other than that the only concerns going forward were improving scope, and improving retirement. They expect the shortage to do the heavy lifting for raises. We have three new (new to us they are former AA birds) B767 coming online. The first one N389AA has been renumbered to N432AX and should be online by now having had a complete strip down and interior change. The first 3 777F's from Amazon went somewhere else, so for the time being we still are passenger only and not in the Amazon whipsaw game.

    Anyway, my point is pilots (no matter which airline) are never happy and always complain. It's a complicated matter of evaluating what the chief complaints are to determine the health of the pilot group and airline management relationship. Our problems are minor, Delta's problems are slightly more but still minor nuisance type stuff. The things happening at AA/ENY are deeply institutional and outright punitive, indicative of severe animosity on both sides bordering on outright contempt and disgust. That is not good for any airline.
    "For what it's worth." Well, if it's coming from you, it's worth about zero. Secondly, finally you are correct about something and it's about Delta. Some of the guys aren't happy and things aren't so rosy like BB constantly on here pining after them. Thirdly, you have no idea how things are on the line at AA and they are good. There are always a few outliers who are never happy anywhere. You are gonna find that anywhere you go. And to come on here and point to those 1% guys at AA and less than 10% at Envoy....well it's just wrong. 99% of ALL the Envoy AND AA guys I know are super happy and stoked to be here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    "For what it's worth." Well, if it's coming from you, it's worth about zero. Secondly, finally you are correct about something and it's about Delta. Some of the guys aren't happy and things aren't so rosy like BB constantly on here pining after them. Thirdly, you have no idea how things are on the line at AA and they are good. There are always a few outliers who are never happy anywhere. You are gonna find that anywhere you go. And to come on here and point to those 1% guys at AA and less than 10% at Envoy....well it's just wrong. 99% of ALL the Envoy AND AA guys I know are super happy and stoked to be here.
    The flow stops in August!
    Not to worry...it will resume.

    Fact!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    "For what it's worth." Well, if it's coming from you, it's worth about zero. Secondly, finally you are correct about something and it's about Delta. Some of the guys aren't happy and things aren't so rosy like BB constantly on here pining after them. Thirdly, you have no idea how things are on the line at AA and they are good. There are always a few outliers who are never happy anywhere. You are gonna find that anywhere you go. And to come on here and point to those 1% guys at AA and less than 10% at Envoy....well it's just wrong. 99% of ALL the Envoy AND AA guys I know are super happy and stoked to be here.
    “1% at AA” ?
    “super happy” ?

    The APA believes differently. I spend more time laughing at your little charade then anything else going on these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    “1% at AA” ?
    “super happy” ?

    The APA believes differently. I spend more time laughing at your little charade then anything else going on these days.
    I doubt Peggy Sue has more than 3-4 friends. So maybe it is true that 99% of them are "super happy and stoked to be there".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Understood, but if Delta pilots chief complaints are about crew meal logistics, then things can't be that bad. Yes, no airline is perfect and Delta is no exception, but Delta's issues with labor are extremely minor in comparison to AA and if any airline needs its front-line labor force firing on all cylinders, it's one with 22+ billion in debt and a steeply declining profit metric in the most robust economy in decades. Delta's relationship with labor is not impacting the bottom line whereas AA's is crippling it.
    Well DAL labor groups have been trying to unionize. Daddy D has been pretty vocal against it. I believe, correct me if Iím wrong, but arenít the pilots the only unionized group at DAL?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Layman View Post
    Well DAL labor groups have been trying to unionize. Daddy D has been pretty vocal against it. I believe, correct me if Iím wrong, but arenít the pilots the only unionized group at DAL?
    Yes. Again, make no mistake DAL is an airline and not to be confused with anything else, but looking at all metrics, they are doing what works. AA.........not so much.

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    It would be interesting if the other groups unionized at Delta. Iíd be curious what that impact would be on the operation both financially and day to day. I suppose then any goodwill from management there may go away since it wonít get them far. Hard to say really, even if they did stay the course with labor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Understood, but if Delta pilots chief complaints are about crew meal logistics, then things can't be that bad. Yes, no airline is perfect and Delta is no exception, but Delta's issues with labor are extremely minor in comparison to AA and if any airline needs its front-line labor force firing on all cylinders, it's one with 22+ billion in debt and a steeply declining profit metric in the most robust economy in decades. Delta's relationship with labor is not impacting the bottom line whereas AA's is crippling it.
    Yes, the primary complaints were scheduling & logistics related.
    Building lines with 2 short flights with a really long sit, and another with almost identical duty day doing 5 legs with planes changes on 3 and no meal period. The two short flights having a 10 minute longer duty day that trips a crew meal on one of their 2 short flights.
    The big problem being that apparently the company used to listen to those complaints and adjust as needed, now they aren’t.
    As I said initially, their problems are minor. The problems where I’m at are even fewer, which hasn’t always been the case, but currently the only issues I’d like to see improved are the retirement and some scope improvement. Our hourly and soft benefits are comparable to other major type jobs, and the shortage will keep things trending positive for all of us.
    The issues at AA/AE run much deeper, are institutional; and history has proven that a house divided, in the end, never prevails. A lesson Parker should have learned from Lorenzo, but apparently hasn’t.
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