Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 78

Thread: Is Parkerís unfit to manage AA?

  1. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,392
    Level
    66
    Points: 9,708, Level: 66
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 209/18
    Given: 66/145

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Meatloaf View Post
    While technically correct, you're still incorrect. I believe APA got profit sharing outside their Section 6 along with a 6-8% pay bump. Give credit where it's due. Otherwise you lose creditability. There are some good things happening around here (AAG). Yes Envoy is stagnant in the contract improvements. But until new bodies stop showing up, that will continue.
    Both the feeble profit-sharing and “pay bump” were not obtained by APA through any representational prowess. APA was as surprised as everyone else when informed. They were essentially pacifiers handed out by AAG management with the hope to mute dissention and maximize effort. Both were essentially a payoff believed to produce more income then money paid out, therefore would more then pay for itself. Fact is, AA pilots total compensation is more on par with Spirit Airlines pilots vs. Delta pilots. For example, AA pilots profit sharing will be on the order of approximately 1.5% whereas Delta pilots will be over 10%. Since their rates are higher and other contractual provisions allow for substantially higher pay seat vs. same seat, the actual additional compensation is more likely in the 15-20% range above an equal AA pilot.

    But, the “new” AA isn’t the old AA and that’s what Envoy flows need to understand. In essence, they are flowing to a Spirit, not a Delta (or even a United). As a pilot, you have to look past airline size, shiny Boeing’s and Airbuses but instead at the culture, QWL and lifestyle. Worse yet, it’s a Spirit with 22 Billion in debt and likely climbing and as outside industry evaluators are consistently noting, a plummeting quality product. Envoy pilots can ignore and/or rationalize the red flags if they want, but IMO, that’s a fool’s errand.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 01-17-2019 at 09:48 PM.

  2. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    50
    Level
    17
    Points: 1,015, Level: 17
    Overall activity: 16.0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Both the feeble profit-sharing and ďpay bumpĒ were not obtained by APA through any representational prowess. APA was as surprised as everyone else when informed. They were essentially pacifiers handed out by AAG management with the hope to mute dissention and maximize effort. Both were essentially a payoff believed to produce more income then money paid out, therefore would more then pay for itself. Fact is, AA pilots total compensation is more on par with Spirit Airlines pilots vs. Delta pilots. For example, AA pilots profit sharing will be on the order of approximately 1.5% whereas Delta pilots will be over 10%. Since their rates are higher and other contractual provisions allow for substantially higher pay seat vs. same seat, the actual additional compensation is more likely in the 15-20% range above an equal AA pilot.

    But, the ďnewĒ AA isnít the old AA and thatís what Envoy flows need to understand. In essence, they are flowing to a Spirit, not a Delta (or even a United). As a pilot, you have to look past airline size, shiny Boeingís and Airbuses but instead at the culture, QWL and lifestyle. Worse yet, itís a Spirit with 22 Billion in debt and likely climbing and as outside industry evaluators are consistently noting, a plummeting quality product. Envoy pilots can ignore and/or rationalize the red flags if they want, but IMO, thatís a foolís errand.
    Agreed, advark shouldn't ignore the signs. He should be heading off to spirit any day now. You shouldn't have retired from AA and ignored the red flags. Do you see the point I'm trying to make?

  3. #23
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,392
    Level
    66
    Points: 9,708, Level: 66
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 209/18
    Given: 66/145

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Meatloaf View Post
    Agreed, advark shouldn't ignore the signs. He should be heading off to spirit any day now. You shouldn't have retired from AA and ignored the red flags. Do you see the point I'm trying to make?
    I’m sorry. I saw a request to “give credit where credit is due” and “there are some good things happening around here (AAG)”. Perhaps you could a clue me into where to “give credit” and for what. Considering where AA is heading at the direction of upper management (AAG), I could also use another clue as to what “good things” are happening and for whom. The employees at AA are trailing their peers into being classified into a LCC and the customers appear to be suffering as well. On the Envoy front, the flow is trickling at minimum rate despite claims of throngs of pilots flinging themselves at the training center doors and QWL is as bad, if not worse as it ever has been.

    Maybe it’s me, but you lost me on your point if it was something other then what I processed above.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 01-17-2019 at 11:33 PM.

  4. #24
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    4,598
    Level
    98
    Points: 27,453, Level: 98
    Overall activity: 99.9%
    Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 570/36
    Given: 589/14

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    I said apa did not get in their contract profit sharing, and if not wrong, it still is not in their contract. That is the question to ask. That's all I said. I dont put blinders on anyone about envoy and aa is an animal all by its lonesome in its group.

  5. #25
    Registered User Dacuj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    693
    Level
    71
    Points: 11,713, Level: 71
    Overall activity: 93.0%
    Achievements:
    Overdrive1 year registered10000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 15/170
    Given: 0/5

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Meatloaf View Post
    While technically correct, you're still incorrect. I believe APA got profit sharing outside their Section 6 along with a 6-8% pay bump. Give credit where it's due. Otherwise you lose creditability. There are some good things happening around here (AAG). Yes Envoy is stagnant in the contract improvements. But until new bodies stop showing up, that will continue.
    Thank you for posting a clear, sober response that is full of FACTS and not just a bunch of hyperbole and what someone "thinks" is happening. Yes, AA pilots have profit sharing as you have stated, to the detriment of some here who just opine that there is NO profit sharing. Couldn't be further from the truth. You are correct in that those grifters have no credibility. They never have. Ask anyone. Why is ardvark still at Envoy? Why doesn't he flow instead of staying here and "getting beat to death" daily by the horrible schedules, inept management blah blah blah. Yeah right. The problem is in the mirror, not with the company. And the guy who retired. Why does he insist on coming here and posting lies and trying to turn people against the company? Just because he was trapped in the lost decade and slipped through the cracks to get to AA for a very brief period?

    All companies go through cycles but it is not as painted by some here. AA is on the upswing and just take a look at the last three years at Envoy. The grifters had a field day when we called a 2.5 year upgrade, said it would never happen. Well, not only did it happen, it happened in spades with the upgrade basically becoming as soon as you want it. Grifters said the flow wouldn't work. Well, we are still flowing aren't we? Have been for years now. It's a well oiled machine and it's like a freight train that has gained momentum and is impossible to stop now. Want a career at AA? Come to Envoy. There is no better path to get you in that seat. Take a look at how many aircraft we are flying now. ADDITIONAL 175s coming on board. Pilot list growing toward that 3000 number. Contrary to those who make a joke of it, people literally are beating down the doors to get in here.

    Let's call a spade a spade. As stated above, APA got profit sharing AND a pay bump OUTSIDE of Section 6? When does that happen anywhere? It happens here when management realizes what type of talent they need to hold on to. Overall, Envoy is the best place to be right now if you are starting your career.

  6. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,392
    Level
    66
    Points: 9,708, Level: 66
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 209/18
    Given: 66/145

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Thank you for posting a clear, sober response that is full of FACTS and not just a bunch of hyperbole and what someone "thinks" is happening. Yes, AA pilots have profit sharing as you have stated, to the detriment of some here who just opine that there is NO profit sharing. Couldn't be further from the truth. You are correct in that those grifters have no credibility. They never have. Ask anyone. Why is ardvark still at Envoy? Why doesn't he flow instead of staying here and "getting beat to death" daily by the horrible schedules, inept management blah blah blah. Yeah right. The problem is in the mirror, not with the company. And the guy who retired. Why does he insist on coming here and posting lies and trying to turn people against the company? Just because he was trapped in the lost decade and slipped through the cracks to get to AA for a very brief period?

    All companies go through cycles but it is not as painted by some here. AA is on the upswing and just take a look at the last three years at Envoy. The grifters had a field day when we called a 2.5 year upgrade, said it would never happen. Well, not only did it happen, it happened in spades with the upgrade basically becoming as soon as you want it. Grifters said the flow wouldn't work. Well, we are still flowing aren't we? Have been for years now. It's a well oiled machine and it's like a freight train that has gained momentum and is impossible to stop now. Want a career at AA? Come to Envoy. There is no better path to get you in that seat. Take a look at how many aircraft we are flying now. ADDITIONAL 175s coming on board. Pilot list growing toward that 3000 number. Contrary to those who make a joke of it, people literally are beating down the doors to get in here.

    Let's call a spade a spade. As stated above, APA got profit sharing AND a pay bump OUTSIDE of Section 6? When does that happen anywhere? It happens here when management realizes what type of talent they need to hold on to. Overall, Envoy is the best place to be right now if you are starting your career.
    Ahh...…….today's installment of Curly's Psychological Projections. The gift that keeps on giving.

    You never heard of the term "Grifter" until I (correctly) used to describe you and now you're is using it like you own it. Since we're talking spades, it's clear you're digging in the dirt again looking for cat turds with representations of how both AA and Envoy pilots are doing financially and QWL-wise against their peers. The verdict is in and BOTH fail miserably and trail at the back of the pack and worse yet, their managements show no willingness to change and even worse then that, don't have the finances to change if they wanted to, at least not without piling more debt onto an already mountainous amount.


    Gee, I dunno..................PTSD from your fake military battles ?

  7. #27
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Company
    A great one
    Base
    Home Based
    Job
    Pilot
    A/C Flown
    SF340, E145, B767
    Posts
    1,889
    Level
    99
    Points: 29,690, Level: 99
    Overall activity: 28.0%
    Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteran25000 Experience PointsSocial
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 370/50
    Given: 75/9

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    ""...........Why is ardvark still at Envoy? Why doesn't he flow instead of staying here and "getting beat to death" daily by the horrible schedules, inept management blah blah blah. Yeah right"............
    for somebody who is supposedly at AA, why would you write it that way? Staying “here” meaning Envoy.....
    You are still at Envoy.

    You are are a liar.
    __________________________________________________ __

  8. #28
    Registered User Dacuj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    693
    Level
    71
    Points: 11,713, Level: 71
    Overall activity: 93.0%
    Achievements:
    Overdrive1 year registered10000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 15/170
    Given: 0/5

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    for somebody who is supposedly at AA, why would you write it that way? Staying “here” meaning Envoy.....
    You are still at Envoy.

    You are are a liar.
    You are so wrong my friend. I've said all along that Envoy pilots are AA pilots when hired. Just because you move to another division doesn't change that AA/Envoy are the SAME place.

  9. #29
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Company
    A great one
    Base
    Home Based
    Job
    Pilot
    A/C Flown
    SF340, E145, B767
    Posts
    1,889
    Level
    99
    Points: 29,690, Level: 99
    Overall activity: 28.0%
    Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteran25000 Experience PointsSocial
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 370/50
    Given: 75/9

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Is Parker fit to lead AA?

    The WSJ seems to say no. Last or second to last in their review for the past ten years. The fact that they went out of their way to report that fact speaks volumes.

    https://www.wsj.com/video/the-best-a...6C4F699EA.html

  10. #30
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Company
    A great one
    Base
    Home Based
    Job
    Pilot
    A/C Flown
    SF340, E145, B767
    Posts
    1,889
    Level
    99
    Points: 29,690, Level: 99
    Overall activity: 28.0%
    Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteran25000 Experience PointsSocial
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 370/50
    Given: 75/9

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    You are so wrong my friend. I've said all along that Envoy pilots are AA pilots when hired. Just because you move to another division doesn't change that AA/Envoy are the SAME place.
    You are delusional. Have you considered getting professional help? You should.

  11. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,392
    Level
    66
    Points: 9,708, Level: 66
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 209/18
    Given: 66/145

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    You are delusional. Have you considered getting professional help? You should.
    Clearly, he is. That absurd military story solidified it. Obviously, he lives in a world of fantasy. Again, Mongo’s motives here don’t matter whether he truly believes the nonsense he spouts or doesn’t and is simply jerking chains for giggles, as either way that behavior is indicative of someone with significant psychiatric instability. His attempts to self-medicate with excessive alcohol obviously aren’t working.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 01-19-2019 at 09:36 AM.

  12. #32
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Company
    Eagle
    Base
    ORD
    A/C Flown
    Jungle Jet
    Posts
    495
    Level
    72
    Points: 12,081, Level: 72
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 41/6
    Given: 5/1

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Let's call a spade a spade. As stated above, APA got profit sharing AND a pay bump OUTSIDE of Section 6? When does that happen anywhere? It happens here when management realizes what type of talent they need to hold on to.
    ???
    Iím sorry. Are you saying that one of the reasons management gave APA profit sharing and a pay bump is to ensure pilot retention?

    Iím sure you will agree that after a pilot has been hired by AA his chances of leaving for another major after he/she has been on property for more than 3 years is quite small let alone after 5. Considering that most pilots on AA property have north of 10years of seniority and many are at the top of the pay scales for their respective seats I think the chance that a pilot would resign, or even retire early, over a bonus is minuscule l, at best.

    So how does our profit sharing stack up compared w/United, Delta, and Southwest?

    In 2016 these pilot groups payout where this percentage of an individuals annual pay

    AA 3.00%
    UA 13.03%
    DL. 21.46%
    SW 15.60%

    Did they do any better in 2017? Nope, it went down.

    AA 2.20%
    UA 11.30%
    DL 15.10%
    SW 6.12%

    But can you translate that into dollars, itís only a few points.

    Assuming that an FO made $175k a year total bonus payments between 2016-2017 would be:
    AA $9,100
    UA $42,578
    DL $63,980
    SW $38,010

    Thatís $29k to $55k difference between AA and our breatheren.

    Also your comment that an Envoy pilot is an AA pilot is just flat wrong. If that was true than logic would dictate that the converse was true. That an AA pilot is an Envoy pilot. Iím pretty sure I know how APA would answer that

  13. #33
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    222
    Level
    47
    Points: 5,353, Level: 47
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 9/0
    Given: 0/0

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jdflyer View Post
    ???
    Iím sorry. Are you saying that one of the reasons management gave APA profit sharing and a pay bump is to ensure pilot retention?

    Iím sure you will agree that after a pilot has been hired by AA his chances of leaving for another major after he/she has been on property for more than 3 years is quite small let alone after 5. Considering that most pilots on AA property have north of 10years of seniority and many are at the top of the pay scales for their respective seats I think the chance that a pilot would resign, or even retire early, over a bonus is minuscule l, at best.

    So how does our profit sharing stack up compared w/United, Delta, and Southwest?

    In 2016 these pilot groups payout where this percentage of an individuals annual pay

    AA 3.00%
    UA 13.03%
    DL. 21.46%
    SW 15.60%

    Did they do any better in 2017? Nope, it went down.

    AA 2.20%
    UA 11.30%
    DL 15.10%
    SW 6.12%

    But can you translate that into dollars, itís only a few points.

    Assuming that an FO made $175k a year total bonus payments between 2016-2017 would be:
    AA $9,100
    UA $42,578
    DL $63,980
    SW $38,010

    Thatís $29k to $55k difference between AA and our breatheren.

    Also your comment that an Envoy pilot is an AA pilot is just flat wrong. If that was true than logic would dictate that the converse was true. That an AA pilot is an Envoy pilot. Iím pretty sure I know how APA would answer that
    You have to excuse him, he has some serious PTSD from his dress up war enactments.

  14. #34
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,392
    Level
    66
    Points: 9,708, Level: 66
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 209/18
    Given: 66/145

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jdflyer View Post
    ???
    I’m sorry. Are you saying that one of the reasons management gave APA profit sharing and a pay bump is to ensure pilot retention?

    I’m sure you will agree that after a pilot has been hired by AA his chances of leaving for another major after he/she has been on property for more than 3 years is quite small let alone after 5. Considering that most pilots on AA property have north of 10years of seniority and many are at the top of the pay scales for their respective seats I think the chance that a pilot would resign, or even retire early, over a bonus is minuscule l, at best.

    So how does our profit sharing stack up compared w/United, Delta, and Southwest?

    In 2016 these pilot groups payout where this percentage of an individuals annual pay

    AA 3.00%
    UA 13.03%
    DL. 21.46%
    SW 15.60%

    Did they do any better in 2017? Nope, it went down.

    AA 2.20%
    UA 11.30%
    DL 15.10%
    SW 6.12%

    But can you translate that into dollars, it’s only a few points.

    Assuming that an FO made $175k a year total bonus payments between 2016-2017 would be:
    AA $9,100
    UA $42,578
    DL $63,980
    SW $38,010

    That’s $29k to $55k difference between AA and our breatheren.

    Also your comment that an Envoy pilot is an AA pilot is just flat wrong. If that was true than logic would dictate that the converse was true. That an AA pilot is an Envoy pilot. I’m pretty sure I know how APA would answer that
    Heard a story I’ll call A Tale of Two Pilots. One is an AA Group II F/O who made $180,000. His 1.4% profit sharing will be about $2,520 before taxes. That’s $182,520. His buddy, a Delta F/O with less seniority made $205,000 (and more flexible QWL while doing it) and his profit sharing will be 14% or $28,700. That’s $233,700. That wide gaps gets bigger when talking about Captains, especially senior. In fact, the average Airbus or 737 Captain at AA topped out on the pay scale at 12 years will get less then $4,000. This means, many Delta F/O’s with 7-12 years seniority will make as much or more then 12+ year AA captains in total compensation.

    In reality, it should be A Tale of Two Airlines. As the airline rankings show (with Spirit now even matching and/or beating AA) one is going places, the other not.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 01-19-2019 at 07:13 PM.

  15. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    50
    Level
    17
    Points: 1,015, Level: 17
    Overall activity: 16.0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Heard a story I’ll call A Tale of Two Pilots. One is an AA Group II F/O who made $180,000. His 1.4% profit sharing will be about $2,520 before taxes. That’s $182,520. His buddy, a Delta F/O with less seniority made $205,000 (and more flexible QWL while doing it) and his profit sharing will be 14% or $28,700. That’s $233,700. That wide gaps gets bigger when talking about Captains, especially senior. In fact, the average Airbus or 737 Captain at AA topped out on the pay scale at 12 years will get less then $4,000. This means, many Delta F/O’s with 7-12 years seniority will make as much or more then 12+ year AA captains in total compensation.

    In reality, it should be A Tale of Two Airlines. As the airline rankings show (with Spirit now even matching and/or beating AA) one is going places, the other not.
    The profit sharing is absolutely bull****. If the company makes money they pay it. If they don't make money, they don't pay it. AAG has a huge disconnect on this one.

    Delta QWL? That's a different animal and is harder to gauge. For example, a Delta guy living base can clean up. A commuter has a different story. One example, is their green slip. They get good money for premium trips, but they can't pass when they are called. That's my understanding.

    At AA guys can play the over guarantee and premium game and never take a trip.

  16. #36
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Company
    A great one
    Base
    Home Based
    Job
    Pilot
    A/C Flown
    SF340, E145, B767
    Posts
    1,889
    Level
    99
    Points: 29,690, Level: 99
    Overall activity: 28.0%
    Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteran25000 Experience PointsSocial
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 370/50
    Given: 75/9

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post

    But, the “new” AA isn’t the old AA and that’s what Envoy flows need to understand. In essence, they are flowing to a Spirit, not a Delta (or even a United). As a pilot, you have to look past airline size, shiny Boeing’s and Airbuses but instead at the culture, QWL and lifestyle. Worse yet, it’s a Spirit with 22 Billion in debt and likely climbing and as outside industry evaluators are consistently noting, a plummeting quality product. Envoy pilots can ignore and/or rationalize the red flags if they want, but IMO, that’s a fool’s errand.
    I’ve spoken with guys that recently retired after 30 years, guys that flowed 5 and 10 years ago, and all have said the QOL and management style has greatly deteriorated under Parker the past 6 years. They agreed the newer flows will never get to notice since as bad as it’s become it’s light years better than at Eagle, but no longer represents the QOL a legacy pilot should be living. We compare notes about schedules, block time off, commuting, crashpading, pay rates and I feel no interest in going back to the lifestyle they’re living. I do consider their job to have more long term stablity/security, but other than that it’s no longer very appealing.
    I love where I’m at; We’ve been serving the same major customers for 15 and 25 years respectively. No cargo, pax only. It’s still a contractor.... kind of like Blackwater.... always seems to get plenty of work.

    now Delta or United on the other hand still maintain a legacy pilot lifestyle.
    Last edited by Cujo665; 01-20-2019 at 04:37 PM.
    __________________________________________________ __

  17. #37
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    32
    Level
    40
    Points: 4,144, Level: 40
    Overall activity: 20.0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 2/1
    Given: 0/0

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    now Delta or United on the other hand still maintain a legacy pilot lifestyle.
    Iíll be sure to congratulate the United guy in my Crashpad on his legacy Pilot lifestyle tomorrow when he heads out for a field standby (ready reserve) shift tomorrow on his last day of reserve for the week. This is, of course, after theyíve already converted him from LC to SC more than six times just in the first half of the month. As for me, I was auto-released earlier this morning and took my pre-reserved jumpseat home (I donít believe DAL or UAL have that particular option). Iíve credited a total of 30 hours this month (two trips this month: an easy 3-day and another to HNL, which credits 15:45 for only 11-ish hours of flying). Passed on everything else offered to me on reserve in order to spend more time with the family. Speaking of family, I spent Thanksgiving at home on LC while the other mainline guys in the pad (similar seniority) were flying. Choosing not to pass on flying early in November pumped up the credit to a whopping 50 in the first part of the month and pretty much guaranteed me the holiday at home.

    Look, I get that this forum seems to primarily exist only to show Envoy people how crappy their lives are and will be working for and AAG carrier. However, you guys slant way too hard to the negative.

    AA, DAL, and UAL each have their good and bad contract areas. With each airline you will win in some areas and lose in some areas. Only one of those carriers is still working under a bankruptcy/merger JCBA.

    I think it would be prudent to see what APA can accomplish in Section 6 before advising people that choosing between AA and Spirit is just a simple coin flip.

  18. #38
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,392
    Level
    66
    Points: 9,708, Level: 66
    Overall activity: 99.8%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 209/18
    Given: 66/145

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by check_six View Post
    Iíll be sure to congratulate the United guy in my Crashpad on his legacy Pilot lifestyle tomorrow when he heads out for a field standby (ready reserve) shift tomorrow on his last day of reserve for the week. This is, of course, after theyíve already converted him from LC to SC more than six times just in the first half of the month. As for me, I was auto-released earlier this morning and took my pre-reserved jumpseat home (I donít believe DAL or UAL have that particular option). Iíve credited a total of 30 hours this month (two trips this month: an easy 3-day and another to HNL, which credits 15:45 for only 11-ish hours of flying). Passed on everything else offered to me on reserve in order to spend more time with the family. Speaking of family, I spent Thanksgiving at home on LC while the other mainline guys in the pad (similar seniority) were flying. Choosing not to pass on flying early in November pumped up the credit to a whopping 50 in the first part of the month and pretty much guaranteed me the holiday at home.

    Look, I get that this forum seems to primarily exist only to show Envoy people how crappy their lives are and will be working for and AAG carrier. However, you guys slant way too hard to the negative.

    AA, DAL, and UAL each have their good and bad contract areas. With each airline you will win in some areas and lose in some areas. Only one of those carriers is still working under a bankruptcy/merger JCBA.

    I think it would be prudent to see what APA can accomplish in Section 6 before advising people that choosing between AA and Spirit is just a simple coin flip.
    I too can tell stories of both United and Delta pilots ďlifestylesĒ from direct crashpad interactions. In my experience, despite differences in contracts, both groups are leaps and bounds above AA pilots.You are correct though that AA pilots are at a disadvantage due to a bankruptcy contract. But, critical differences must be acknowledged. First and foremost being the managements of the carriers and in that respect, AA pilots are in real trouble. A full 6 years after that contract AA management still has not implemented all provisions.

    As for APA, I ask could you explain A. What you think APA can accomplish and B. In what time frame ? To do both of course, would also require defining what leverage exists among APA/AA pilots to alter present dynamics.

    I look forward to your opinion on this situation.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 01-20-2019 at 08:41 PM.

  19. #39
    Registered User Dacuj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    693
    Level
    71
    Points: 11,713, Level: 71
    Overall activity: 93.0%
    Achievements:
    Overdrive1 year registered10000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 15/170
    Given: 0/5

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by check_six View Post
    Iíll be sure to congratulate the United guy in my Crashpad on his legacy Pilot lifestyle tomorrow when he heads out for a field standby (ready reserve) shift tomorrow on his last day of reserve for the week. This is, of course, after theyíve already converted him from LC to SC more than six times just in the first half of the month. As for me, I was auto-released earlier this morning and took my pre-reserved jumpseat home (I donít believe DAL or UAL have that particular option). Iíve credited a total of 30 hours this month (two trips this month: an easy 3-day and another to HNL, which credits 15:45 for only 11-ish hours of flying). Passed on everything else offered to me on reserve in order to spend more time with the family. Speaking of family, I spent Thanksgiving at home on LC while the other mainline guys in the pad (similar seniority) were flying. Choosing not to pass on flying early in November pumped up the credit to a whopping 50 in the first part of the month and pretty much guaranteed me the holiday at home.

    Look, I get that this forum seems to primarily exist only to show Envoy people how crappy their lives are and will be working for and AAG carrier. However, you guys slant way too hard to the negative.

    AA, DAL, and UAL each have their good and bad contract areas. With each airline you will win in some areas and lose in some areas. Only one of those carriers is still working under a bankruptcy/merger JCBA.

    I think it would be prudent to see what APA can accomplish in Section 6 before advising people that choosing between AA and Spirit is just a simple coin flip.
    ^^^This. Refreshing to see someone that is actually at AA tell the unvarnished facts with me vs a couple of washed out has beens.

  20. #40
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    32
    Level
    40
    Points: 4,144, Level: 40
    Overall activity: 20.0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 2/1
    Given: 0/0

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    I too can tell stories of both United and Delta pilots ďlifestylesĒ from direct crashpad interactions. In my experience, despite differences in contracts, both groups are leaps and bounds above AA pilots.You are correct though that AA pilots are at a disadvantage due to a bankruptcy contract. But, critical differences must be acknowledged. First and foremost being the managements of the carriers and in that respect, AA pilots are in real trouble. A full 6 years after that contract AA management still has not implemented all provisions.

    As for APA, I ask could you explain A. What you think APA can accomplish and B. In what time frame ? To do both of course, would also require defining what leverage exists among APA/AA pilots to alter present dynamics.

    I look forward to your opinion on this situation.
    Agreed that the implementation schedule boondoggle is ridiculous. Iím not sure how much leverage APA would have been able to generate to push a schedule considering the wrangling required of the three incredibly different pilot groups (two of which had already been waging a long war). However, the recent ďtake your vacationĒ campaign is encouraging in reference to the bottom 75-80% of the seniority list. We canít do much about the top 25% as they all feel the need to ďmake up for lost timeĒ and pull up the ladder.

    Management, if they had a few ethical bones in their body, should have considered pursuing implementation to fix the culture war. That might have even fared better than the 8% raise band-aid. However, they have clearly failed at that.

    AAG executive management seems to be unable to figure out how to effectively bring everyone together and run a solid airline. The question of overall success will likely depend how long the Board decides to retain them. Doug had a vision of consolidation (and not much else, frankly). Every CEO is a type...Doug appears to be a Financial value-driver who had a vision for industry consolidation. He should have put the airlines together and ridden off into the sunset. AA needs a Peopleís Champion/Corporate Ambassador CEO at this phase (maybe we can hire Howard Schultz if his presidential run fails). The longer we go without these skill sets at the top the longer the company suffers.

    I think APA can accomplish much better than the bankruptcy JCBA with a reasonably unified pilot group. Time will tell on that. Openers are being traded this week. How the pilot group reacts to what APA sends across the table will determine the likelihood of success, possibility of a reasonable timeline, etc. APA will either unite the group with a good opening salvo, or seek to protect the pay rates, pensions, and lifestyles of the senior WB folks and alienate a massive chunk of the seniority list.

    Right now the APA bigs are at a fancy conference in Maui. Not sure that sets the right tone out of the gate... But hey, often times we pilots are our own worst enemies.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •