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Thread: It's Been A Great Year

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz5422 View Post
    ummm cheesesteaks..........ha ha ha.
    Lest we not forget....palm trees and LAX growing legs. What an idiot.

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    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    Unfortunately there is bad news in the realm of others picking up aa feed flying and not envoy. Those new cities. They majority are single day one flight a week. That is not growth or good for envoy dadouce. Pay stinks, schedules stink, qol stinks at envoy. Square those to your lies dadouce.
    By the way doucet, why are you here on this forum, aa forum not filled with clueless new hires. Get drunk and do us all a favor and do the honorable act.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    As we wind down 2018, let's look back over the significant accomplishments and improvements in a year in review.

    *Safest, most successful regional airline in the world.

    *EMB 175 fleet increasing to 84 total.

    *Industry leading pilot pay.

    *On track for over 3000 pilots on the seniority list!

    *Pipeline program churning out impressive numbers of future AA pilots.

    *Sub one year upgrade!

    *New base. ORD E175 base now a reality.


    Just some bullet point highlights for what has been a fantastic year!
    Sorry man... your industry leading pay comment got me thinking. I don't know you from Paul, but your numbers just don't add up for me. Show me the math and I will believe you.

    Exclude benefits, per Diem, because everyone gets those, and let's be honest for just a second, ours are nothing to write home about.

    First Year Pay... including bonuses, and assuming that you are sitting on reserve, (because 1+ year on reserve is a reality). Out of 10 comparable regionals, Envoy placed 4th. Not industry leading.

    Second Year Pay??? Including retention bonuses and probably off of reserve, but not quite upgraded yet because you were on reserve for the last year. Out of 10 comparable regionals, Envoy Placed 6th. Still nothing industry leading here.

    Maybe the total between two years? Same criteria, combined totals. Envoy placed 5th. Still not industry leading. Honestly, right around average by my math.

    When you say on track for 3000 pilots, we had 2400 pilots on our seniority list in February, and have 2400 pilots on our seniority list this month. Where are you getting that assumption?

    When you look at the whole picture, our pay could be better, our reserve rules could be MUCH better, and our schedules could be better.

    Alright, I get it, you are a recruiter, a sales man, trying to make the pitch. Point out the highlights, but please don't lie. It doesn't help anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    As we wind down 2018, let's look back over the significant accomplishments and improvements in a year in review.

    *Safest, most successful regional airline in the world.

    *EMB 175 fleet increasing to 84 total.

    *Industry leading pilot pay.

    *On track for over 3000 pilots on the seniority list!

    *Pipeline program churning out impressive numbers of future AA pilots.

    *Sub one year upgrade!

    *New base. ORD E175 base now a reality.


    Just some bullet point highlights for what has been a fantastic year!
    Industry leading pay? Iíd love to see the crackpipe that you use because here in reality, we are with PDT and PSA at the bottom. We are the new Great Lakes of th industry.

    And we wonít be anywhere near 3,000 pilots at the end of 2019. RW wants to hire over 600 in 2019 and it will only give us growth of about 150.

    I wish we could have a fact checker at every recruiting event to ensure that garbage like this isnít believed by people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlowbackMountain View Post
    I wish we could have a fact checker at every recruiting event to ensure that garbage like this isnít believed by people.
    The forces that be would never allow that as it would defeat the point of attracting the uninformed with a bag of quickly consumed candy (teaser bonuses) and promises of utopia (fast flow to one of the last place performers of pilot compensation/QWL) . Without that facade, the hapless target would see they become trapped by commitment contracts chaining them to servitude until a parole date that makes it difficult to cut and run and thus most will serve their sentence in full to reach the mirage of that utopia.

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    Yes. Industry leading pay. Can you not do math? Sure, bonuses are part of the package but as I mentioned before, execs are routinely compensated with bonuses. The corporate world has evolved over the years to have bonuses as part of an overall compensation package. Add up first year pay, bonuses, per diem, insurance, non rev benefits, retirement benefits, vacation and then couple that with 2nd year Captain pay and you do indeed have an industry leading compensation package.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Yes. Industry leading pay. Can you not do math? Sure, bonuses are part of the package but as I mentioned before, execs are routinely compensated with bonuses. The corporate world has evolved over the years to have bonuses as part of an overall compensation package. Add up first year pay, bonuses, per diem, insurance, non rev benefits, retirement benefits, vacation and then couple that with 2nd year Captain pay and you do indeed have an industry leading compensation package.

    You lie as much as management......

    with pilots like you polluting the gene pool at AA, I have deep concern for the APA’s continued ability to hold the line. Stop drinking the coolaid... you’re outa there and don’t need to be their stooge anymore.
    __________________________________________________ __

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    You lie as much as management......

    with pilots like you polluting the gene pool at AA, I have deep concern for the APA’s continued ability to hold the line. Stop drinking the coolaid... you’re outa there and don’t need to be their stooge anymore.
    Whoa, hang on a minute there water boy. Seems to me in the heady 2.5/6 days, you were saying some of the exact same things! So in essence, you are saying that the gene pool at Omni (bwhaa ba ha ha ha) has been polluted. Yes ?

    Maybe you are just upset that you were trapped in the lost decade and aren’t going to have the kind of career that a pipeline guy today will have?

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    Bonuses dont count unless they are across the board and they are not.
    Pay is bottom feeder.

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    How is our 2nd year captain pay or yet our top out captain pay compared to others?.......


    Bottom feeder........

  11. #31
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    At the bottom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Yes. Industry leading pay. Can you not do math? Sure, bonuses are part of the package but as I mentioned before, execs are routinely compensated with bonuses. The corporate world has evolved over the years to have bonuses as part of an overall compensation package. Add up first year pay, bonuses, per diem, insurance, non rev benefits, retirement benefits, vacation and then couple that with 2nd year Captain pay and you do indeed have an industry leading compensation package.
    Since you asked... Envoy ranks 10 of 13 in second year captain pay. I had to add the last 3 in order to make it appear that we were not quite the bottom.

    2nd Year Captain Pay Scales (According to APC 12-22-2018)
    1) Endeavor- $86/hr
    2) Republic- $79/hr
    3) Compass- $76/hr
    4) Skywest- $75/hr
    5) Horizon- $72/hr
    6) GoJet- $71/hr
    7) Air Wisconsin- $71/hr
    8) ExpressJet- $70/hr
    9) PSA- $68/hr
    10) Envoy- $67/hr
    11) CommutAir- $66/hr
    12) Mesa- $64/hr
    13) Piedmont- $63/hr

    Nothing industry leading to see here. In fact, we are at about 78% of the industry leader in terms of second year captain pay. That equates to roughly $16,000 per year! That would pay off a lot of student loan debt! (Debt that cannot be paid with non-rev travel benefits, insurance, retirement benefits, vacation, etc)

    So which part is industry leading?
    Last edited by Pitch4Airspeed; 12-22-2018 at 04:39 PM.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitch4Airspeed View Post
    Since you asked... Envoy ranks 10 of 13 in second year captain pay. I had to add the last 3 in order to make it appear that we were not quite the bottom.

    2nd Year Captain Pay Scales (According to APC 12-22-2018)
    1) Endeavor- $86/hr
    2) Republic- $79/hr
    3) Compass- $76/hr
    4) Skywest- $75/hr
    5) Horizon- $72/hr
    6) GoJet- $71/hr
    7) Air Wisconsin- $71/hr
    8) ExpressJet- $70/hr
    9) PSA- $68/hr
    10) Envoy- $67/hr
    11) CommutAir- $66/hr
    12) Mesa- $64/hr
    13) Piedmont- $63/hr

    Nothing industry leading to see here. In fact, we are at about 78% of the industry leader in terms of second year captain pay. That equates to roughly $16,000 per year! That would pay off a lot of student loan debt! (Debt that cannot be paid with non-rev travel benefits, insurance, retirement benefits, vacation, etc)

    So which part is industry leading?
    Well since you are so knowledgeable, why don't you tell me how many of these carriers will upgrade you no later than your FIRST YEAR ON PROPERTY?

  14. #34
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    THERE is your pay differential genius.

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    All carriers will upgrade you after one year, they have been, envoy was late to the party. You steal from Peter to pay paul to show you make money but in reality everyone makes less at envoy.
    Interesting the all non owned feeders for american pay more to there pilots than aag does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Well since you are so knowledgeable, why don't you tell me how many of these carriers will upgrade you no later than your FIRST YEAR ON PROPERTY?
    Pay RATES are only part of the compensation equation. As a total package, I'd argue Envoy ranks toward or even at the bottom among their peers. Same goes for AA. Face it.....without the carrot of the flow, Envoy would be coughing up blood now. Most of the "poachees" snookered from other regionals came here because of the perception of the flow to AA being a last resort "get out of jail free" card. At least the ones I've talked to bely that sentiment. Keep selling.................maybe one day you'll get good at it.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 12-22-2018 at 11:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Well since you are so knowledgeable, why don't you tell me how many of these carriers will upgrade you no later than your FIRST YEAR ON PROPERTY?
    Sure. I am glad that you asked. First off, there are MANY 145 FO's who are going through their probationary ride with less than 300 hours on the aircraft. They will not be upgrading "No Later Than Their first year", so there is that false assumption.

    2nd Year Captain Pay Scales (Upgrade Time) [According to APC 12-22-2018]
    1) Endeavor- $86/hr (<1 Year)
    2) Republic- $79/hr (2 Years)
    3) Compass- $76/hr (2 Years)
    4) Skywest- $75/hr (<1 Year)
    5) Horizon- $72/hr (<1 Year)
    6) GoJet- $71/hr (<1 Year)
    7) Air Wisconsin- $71/hr (1 Year)
    8) ExpressJet- $70/hr (7 Years)
    9) PSA- $68/hr (1-2 Years)
    10) Envoy- $67/hr (DEC)
    11) CommutAir- $66/hr (DEC)
    12) Mesa- $64/hr (2-3 Years)
    13) Piedmont- $63/hr (DEC)

    Anything else you would like to know? Want to look at the QOL on Reserve? How about those pilots stuck on the CRJ? All industry leading?

  18. #38
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Whoa, hang on a minute there water boy. Seems to me in the heady 2.5/6 days, you were saying some of the exact same things! So in essence, you are saying that the gene pool at Omni (bwhaa ba ha ha ha) has been polluted. Yes ?

    Maybe you are just upset that you were trapped in the lost decade and aren’t going to have the kind of career that a pipeline guy today will have?
    Back then 2.5/6 was a legitimate estimate backed up by hard numbers and math. The stuff you’re selling is opinion without substance, without numbers, without factual basis.

    Yeah, our gene pool has been polluted, highest first year pay rate in the entire 121 industry, top step 12 year CA $20 an hour more than United on same equipment.
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    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitch4Airspeed View Post
    Since you asked... Envoy ranks 10 of 13 in second year captain pay. I had to add the last 3 in order to make it appear that we were not quite the bottom.

    2nd Year Captain Pay Scales (According to APC 12-22-2018)
    1) Endeavor- $86/hr
    2) Republic- $79/hr
    3) Compass- $76/hr
    4) Skywest- $75/hr
    5) Horizon- $72/hr
    6) GoJet- $71/hr
    7) Air Wisconsin- $71/hr
    8) ExpressJet- $70/hr
    9) PSA- $68/hr
    10) Envoy- $67/hr
    11) CommutAir- $66/hr
    12) Mesa- $64/hr
    13) Piedmont- $63/hr

    Nothing industry leading to see here. In fact, we are at about 78% of the industry leader in terms of second year captain pay. That equates to roughly $16,000 per year! That would pay off a lot of student loan debt! (Debt that cannot be paid with non-rev travel benefits, insurance, retirement benefits, vacation, etc)

    So which part is industry leading?

    First year Omni FO - $113/hr

    most junior CA - 2.5 years - $221/hr
    top CA - 12 years - $297/hr
    Last edited by Cujo665; 12-23-2018 at 03:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Well since you are so knowledgeable, why don't you tell me how many of these carriers will upgrade you no later than your FIRST YEAR ON PROPERTY?
    Pretty sure it’s only Republic, Compass, Mesa, Skywest & expressjet not advertising instant or within the first year upgrades....
    there goes your theory.... again.
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