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Thread: 2010 - 2018 Flow %

  1. #61
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    Your twisting the facts. That doesnt apply to people getting hired right now. Take a look at the projections. In 2016, a new hire was projected to flow to AA in less than 5 years. Get your facts strait.
    Not interested in company 2016 projections. The union interactive seniority list of today says new hires today flow in 9 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo View Post
    Cool story brah. I'll see your tall tale and raise you with some hardcore facts.

    1.Sign-on bonus – Receive large sign-on bonus on your first day of training.
    2.Rotor Transition Program – We help rotor-wing military pilots become airline pilots in just a few months!
    3.Profit sharing – Envoy employees participate in American Airlines Group Profit Sharing.
    4.Industry-leading pay – Envoy has nearly doubled its First Officer starting pay to nearly $38 per hour.
    5.Enhanced Part 121 Program – Experienced Part 121 pilots can earn up to $45,000 sign-on bonus and upgrade to Captain in under six months!
    6.Career path – A new hire today is projected to upgrade to Captain in about one year with the fastest guaranteed flow to American of all regional airlines. By the end of 2017, nearly 1,300 Envoy pilots will be flying with American.
    7.Fleet quality – Envoy operates more than 150 Embraer and Bombardier regional jets, and is currently receiving 40 new 76-seat Embraer 175 aircraft, with options for 90 more.
    8.Exceptional training – Envoy has a reputation for leadership in airline pilot training and is highly respected among its industry peers.

    9.Travel privileges – Free and unlimited personal travel for you and your family on the world’s largest network with the same boarding priority as American Airlines employees.
    10.Highest safety standards – Safety has and always will be our #1 priority.
    11.Cadet program – Get paid to earn your flight hours while enjoying the benefits of being an Envoy employee in the Envoy Cadet Program.
    12.Company paid – ATP/CTP Course, iPad Air 2, Global Entry, and Known Crewmember.
    13.Preferred crew bases – Envoy shares hubs with American in Dallas/Fort Worth, Chicago, Miami and New York (La Guardia), with paid hotels for training and commuting.
    14.Direct entry Captain slots for qualified aviators.



    Quite a cake you’ve baked, dude.

    1. As others including myself have previously stated, this “bonus” is mostly forfeited by year 2 when a substantial or massive pay cut occurs depending on transitioning back to F/O or not for whatever reason.

    2. Why trumpet this ? It’s just a scheme needed to get pilots to Envoy and besides, the self-appointed forum Mensa toad claims these pilots suck.

    3. Feeble compared to competitors.

    4. Financial Three Card Monty. Again, it’s needed to attract pilots as the remainder of the tenured pilots get Bupkus. In fact, many pilots make LESS each year due to inflation. Not even feeble #3 makes up for it.

    5. You’re doing a Shake and Bake with this one attempting to recook and serve something already offered. Again, most pilots who eat this crap it right back out in violent fashion in 12 months. We’ll call this one financial Diarrhea.

    6. 2017 has come and gone. Whatever figure you are using includes original Letter 3 flows starting from 1999. They are also flowing to an “enhanced” Envoy whose pilots are treated only modestly better QWL wise then Envoy and ranking at least 6th behind all their peers under a bankruptcy contract not likely to change anytime soon. Just like Spirit, from Cujo’s description of his present world, he actually enjoy’s contractual provisions AA pilots don’t. Sounds like their contract is approximately equal to AA pilots and even superior to the largest LCC’s pilots in some ways.

    7. LOL ! I have to admit, attempting to trumpet 150 clapped out 50-seaters as a positive takes balls. Either that or stupidity and desperation. I think the latter. Not only is 2/3 of Envoy’s fleet old and of limited value, its parent doesn’t have the cash for complete replacement and with their debt, additional financing is highly questionable. That leaves 80 or so “Crown Jewels”. Whoop-de-do.

    8. Envoy has a good training rep, no doubt. But how does this translate to dollars in one’s pocket, time with loved ones that can never be recaptured or on-the-job QWL ? It doesn’t.

    9. An increasingly marginal future benefit. Considering AA’s retirements over the next decade in all job classifications, add many tens of thousands of retired employees with travel “privileges”. Most carriers have this and AA/Envoy does not stand above others and in fact, will likely be of less value due to that higher retirement schedule of more tenured employees.

    10. AA/Envoy is no better or worse then most others looking at the last decade of incidents/accidents. But, your fake cake needed some colored frosting and so here it is.

    11. “Cadets” flocking for positions to the above ? Only because they lack the quals for better (or buy into the sales pitch). But soon they won’t and then what does Envoy do ?

    12. Yawn. All industry standard now. A different color frosting. Very colorful cake now.

    13. Yes, good bases, I agree and the commuter policy is simply to keep the operation running, not for benevolence. Once it’s not needed, expect it to vaporize. But, like Pazuzu in The Exorcist who mixes the truth with lies to be more effective, I’ll give you this one. You’re welcome.

    14. A final Cherry of rehash already added.

    As we can see, your arguments are mostly starch, sugar and foam. Continuously vomiting up this green slime isn’t doing anything for your credibility. It sounds like it is you who are bitter and jealous Cujo landed in his feet after he was made an example of. At any rate, please see me after cooking class as your latest offering is inedible.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 11-28-2018 at 11:06 AM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    Your twisting the facts. That doesnt apply to people getting hired right now. Take a look at the projections. In 2016, a new hire was projected to flow to AA in less than 5 years. Get your facts strait.

    Ah, a complaint of “fact twisting” from you ?

    LOL !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    I enjoyed all those cities. Transportation was easy and lots to do.
    Its easier to say Toykyo and Seoul for people to know what your talking about. Not everybody knows Yokota or Osan. However....Yokota is technically part of Tokyo, itís in the Tama Area, western Tokyo. Plenty of easy ways to get downtown. Same for Osan/Seoul which has both subway and train connection.

    Really enjoying the job here.
    God I hate Osan, and thank god have only had to do one overnight night there. It isn't the city as much as that dirt bag hotel that everyone stays in. For people not in the know, there are only two western style hotels in Osan, and they both suck.

    Have you done any of the OAI or OJ2 flying? Also the Iranian AF is anyways messing with our 74s, I have never had issues in their airspace and think they are the best ATC in the middle east.

    But I also have to ask, why was the Iranian military on 121.5 and not their frequency 127.8?

  5. #65
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    God I hate Osan, and thank god have only had to do one overnight night there. It isn't the city as much as that dirt bag hotel that everyone stays in. For people not in the know, there are only two western style hotels in Osan, and they both suck.

    Have you done any of the OAI or OJ2 flying? Also the Iranian AF is anyways messing with our 74s, I have never had issues in their airspace and think they are the best ATC in the middle east.

    But I also have to ask, why was the Iranian military on 121.5 and not their frequency 127.8?
    We switched hotels the month before I started. It’s about 4 blocks from the old one and is brand new. Small rooms but fully aplianced including washer dryer unit. New York style restaurant across the street, prices okay. Osan reminded me of something you’d see on TV. Narrow streets, tall buildings, signs on everything, people everywhere.

    here that’s under special programs. Yeah, we actually plot their border in the FMC with floating waypoints for a visual backup. Don’t know, we only monitor 121.5.
    Last edited by Cujo665; 11-28-2018 at 02:33 PM.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    No idea about Cujo's shop but most ACMIs are a mix of large blocks on 14-20 depending on the airline smaller trips. Right now I have been bidding the smaller trips and low time lines, between that and holding overnights at home I am averaging 8-10 nights away from home a month. The last time I bid the long SYD trip I was gone was for 15 days in a row, most of the AMC flying is also done with one long trip.
    At AA there are plenty of lame overnights offering no more then Envoy. A significant portion of domestic layovers are Airport area hotels offering little in terms of interest. International offers more and Caribbean is usually pretty good. Some of these less desirable funky locations you guys go to are no better then a DTW or PHL airport layover. Airport hotels are used when below 17 hours IIRC, so you can spend more time there then just a place to sleep.

    The trend at AA when it comes to pilot expense is to go cheap and once thatís attained to try and go even cheaper. The new AA bears little resemblance to the pre-bankruptcy, pre-merger AA.

  7. #67
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    At AA there are plenty of lame overnights offering no more then Envoy. A significant portion of domestic layovers are Airport area hotels offering little in terms of interest. International offers more and Caribbean is usually pretty good. Some of these less desirable funky locations you guys go to are no better then a DTW or PHL airport layover. Airport hotels are used when below 17 hours IIRC, so you can spend more time there then just a place to sleep.

    The trend at AA when it comes to pilot expense is to go cheap and once that’s attained to try and go even cheaper. The new AA bears little resemblance to the pre-bankruptcy, pre-merger AA.

    Thats is just depressing.
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  8. #68
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    But very true

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    Letís look at any FOís W-2 form. And you will see the pay cut they take on their 2nd year. Letís stick to the facts.

    If selling the flow is working, why the Increase in bonuses?

    And while we are at it...why donít we talk about the Compass Pilots coming our way?
    Are they coming as street captains or are we going to give them DOH?
    Lets talk about those Compass pilots - what are you talking about? Some kind of merger? First Iíve heard of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vne View Post
    Lets talk about those Compass pilots - what are you talking about? Some kind of merger? First Iíve heard of that.
    Jungle drums heard telegraphing in the distance. Not very clear but seemingly getting louder.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Jungle drums heard telegraphing in the distance. Not very clear but seemingly getting louder.
    20 175s with Envoy's name written all over them. Haven't I said this before????

  12. #72
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    When they show up then you can say I told you so. If they come with compasd pilots other than to the bottom of list then its really no gain for envoy pilots.

  13. #73
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    20 175s with Envoy's name written all over them. Haven't I said this before????
    You also said a west coast base in 2018......

    tick, tick tick.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    You also said a west coast base in 2018......

    tick, tick tick.....
    Damn....
    I canít believe Iím actually saying this but I donít think he specifically said west coast did he? I do remember reference to cheese steaks though.

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    He referenced lax base will happen when compass planes come here. But you are correct, cheese steak reference.
    That went to pdt and rah, as the dca base went to rah.

  16. #76
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Damn....
    I can’t believe I’m actually saying this but I don’t think he specifically said west coast did he? I do remember reference to cheese steaks though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    .........However, that said, it’s no secret AAG wants increased presence in LAX AND those Compass 175s back here pronto. Latest rumblings are of putting 140/145s out there to supplement Compass and open newer smaller markets. As we make the push for 3000+ on the list, we will be ready to swoop in and staff the 20 175s in LA alongside our 140/145 fleet there.
    Yeah, he said LAX back in January... I was giving some wiggle room... my bad.
    Last edited by Cujo665; 11-30-2018 at 07:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    Yeah, he said LAX back in January... I was giving some wiggle room... my bad.
    IMO, when it comes to him, “wiggle room” is a safety space pre-cleared away for when he inevitably ends up flopping around like a carp on the carpet of his mom’s basement at 2AM in an alcoholic convulsion.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 11-30-2018 at 07:56 PM.

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