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Thread: Envoy losing ORD Pilots to United.

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    Envoy losing ORD Pilots to United.


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    United Continental Holdings Inc.is scrambling to integrate an average of roughly 150 newly hired pilots a month as it reacts to cascading exits of aviators reaching mandatory retirement age.
    Like other major U.S. carriers, United initially envisioned relying on a steady stream of quality applicants from certain commuter airline partners that hired young pilots with the promise of an eventual job interview with United.
    But according to some veteran United pilots, generally only about one-quarter of such applicants have been doing well enough on initial interviews to warrant further testing and related scrutiny.
    The personnel crunch, they say, also is forcing United to start putting some newly hired pilots directly into the co-pilot seats of long-range Boeing 757 or 767 jets—rather than smaller Boeing 737s or similarly sized Airbus aircraft.
    ~WSJ, October 23, 2018~

    ORD Base transfers delayed 60 Days.
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 10-31-2018 at 08:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    United Continental Holdings Inc.is scrambling to integrate an average of roughly 150 newly hired pilots a month as it reacts to cascading exits of aviators reaching mandatory retirement age.
    Like other major U.S. carriers, United initially envisioned relying on a steady stream of quality applicants from certain commuter airline partners that hired young pilots with the promise of an eventual job interview with United.
    But according to some veteran United pilots, generally only about one-quarter of such applicants have been doing well enough on initial interviews to warrant further testing and related scrutiny.
    The personnel crunch, they say, also is forcing United to start putting some newly hired pilots directly into the co-pilot seats of long-range Boeing 757 or 767 jets—rather than smaller Boeing 737s or similarly sized Airbus aircraft.
    ~WSJ, October 23, 2018~

    ORD Base transfers delayed 60 Days.
    And Delta and Southwest and Spirit and FedEx and Atlas and UPS .

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    And Delta and Southwest and Spirit and FedEx and Atlas and UPS .
    Yup!, they’re gone faster than a toupee in a hurricane.

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    As was predicted.
    as the shortage matured flow agreements would have ever decreasing value.
    2018 was/is the year the retirements really start to pick up. It will be a race for staffing for the next six years, then slowly tapering the following four.
    __________________________________________________ __

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    As was predicted.
    as the shortage matured flow agreements would have ever decreasing value.
    2018 was/is the year the retirements really start to pick up. It will be a race for staffing for the next six years, then slowly tapering the following four.
    AA cannot run the present number of new hires through training at needed rate and so until the next downturn hits will likely fall further and further behind on staffing considering the retirement numbers require even more. This will of course further stress the operation (QWL spinning further downward) and tighten their hamstring knot putting further limits on ability to compete which of course, threatens revenue and thus profits. I here some statuses are especially short of Sim P’s and others CKA.

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    Reading APC, it looks like Expressjet is losing pilots in droves. Apparently a large number bailed to Kalitta on fairly short notice. Others to Frontier and Spirit. Odd few are flocking to Envoy to take their place in the AA hopeful conga line, it being such a sweet deal. IMO, Envoy will not enjoy past poaching success and the regional industry, including Envoy will see sudden unexpected attrition.

    This will stress the operation and force more schedule strongarming just to meet reliability metrics. The regional industry is steadily melting and the available pool will be increasingly insufficient in the future. Considering this, it will be interesting what the plan is should Scope get whacked at AA and they shift a lot if flying to its in-house regional operation in the future.

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    More fake news from the chief antagonist of this forum. Of course Expressjet is losing pilots. They have no future and no flow. Envoy on the other hand has a very, very, very bright future and the ties we have with AA make us essentially all the same. Who wouldn't leave Expressjet for a guaranteed job at AA? Exactly, a real dummy is the only kind of person who wouldn't jump all over Envoy. Let me tell you something else. Envoy, right now, is the very hardest seat to get coming from the outside trying to get hired here. Very, very hard to get. So, tell me, why is it so hard to get? We have guys chomping at the bit just to get in the door here. To put it in terms you would understand, we essentially have a caravan that has made it to Regent Blvd and are banging on the doors of HQ begging to get in. That, my friend, is how good of shape Envoy is in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    More fake news from the chief antagonist of this forum. Of course Expressjet is losing pilots. They have no future and no flow. Envoy on the other hand has a very, very, very bright future and the ties we have with AA make us essentially all the same. Who wouldn't leave Expressjet for a guaranteed job at AA? Exactly, a real dummy is the only kind of person who wouldn't jump all over Envoy. Let me tell you something else. Envoy, right now, is the very hardest seat to get coming from the outside trying to get hired here. Very, very hard to get. So, tell me, why is it so hard to get? We have guys chomping at the bit just to get in the door here. To put it in terms you would understand, we essentially have a caravan that has made it to Regent Blvd and are banging on the doors of HQ begging to get in. That, my friend, is how good of shape Envoy is in.
    "Fake News" ?

    So, you're saying the pilots on APC at ExpressJet are lying ? I understand your desperate pleas to present Envoy as the cat's meow, but unless this subject over there is a complete lie, it's not fake news.

    A "caravan" making a pilgrimage to Regent Blvd. and like something out of the movie The Graduate are literally banging on the doors and begging to get in ?

    I think you've missed your forte. From what I hear of your flying skills, you shouldn't be a pilot, but instead a stand-up comedian. Speaking of fake news, has anyone got any video of this so we can take it OFF the phony, baloney shelf ? I for one would be amused to see such a thing.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 11-11-2018 at 11:46 AM.

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    Cuj, you remind me of CNN. You fail to address any questions directed towards you, and when asked for facts you fail to deliver there as well.
    Telling others to STFU while you blather on in an attempt to carry the company water is getting stale. You and your band of circle jerkers are a sad lot.
    The only thing you have is attacks on those who don’t agree with you, lifers, or anyone that says they’re going to any other airline than AA.

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    Weird l, I was thinking Fox News cupping trumps labias. Tit for tat they’re all garbage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Cuj, you remind me of CNN. You fail to address any questions directed towards you, and when asked for facts you fail to deliver there as well.
    Telling others to STFU while you blather on in an attempt to carry the company water is getting stale. You and your band of circle jerkers are a sad lot.
    The only thing you have is attacks on those who don’t agree with you, lifers, or anyone that says they’re going to any other airline than AA.
    Let me ask you. Are you in Beagleboy's camp? It sure seems like it from your postings. If so, then why are you still here? Why haven't you moved on to greener pastures?

    Let me give it to you straight. Beagle has been poisoning minds here for years now. YEARS. It's all due to his history and getting in the industry at the wrong time. He's a con man. Nothing more than a sleazy used car salesman.

    So, what about my statement wasn't true? Envoy is the hardest seat to get right now in the industry. Prove me wrong. Why is it that there are stacks of applicants out there just pining to get in the door? Why is it that the pipeline is spooled up to 100% now and guys are having to wait to get in? Riddle me that one Batman. Literally, there have been cheers in the conference room when guys get the green light and a class date. Why do you think that is? I recommend laying off the Beagle rat poison and look at the FACTS I stated above. If you disagree, then fine. Prove me wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Let me ask you. Are you in Beagleboy's camp? It sure seems like it from your postings. If so, then why are you still here? Why haven't you moved on to greener pastures?

    Let me give it to you straight. Beagle has been poisoning minds here for years now. YEARS. It's all due to his history and getting in the industry at the wrong time. He's a con man. Nothing more than a sleazy used car salesman.

    So, what about my statement wasn't true? Envoy is the hardest seat to get right now in the industry. Prove me wrong. Why is it that there are stacks of applicants out there just pining to get in the door? Why is it that the pipeline is spooled up to 100% now and guys are having to wait to get in? Riddle me that one Batman. Literally, there have been cheers in the conference room when guys get the green light and a class date. Why do you think that is? I recommend laying off the Beagle rat poison and look at the FACTS I stated above. If you disagree, then fine. Prove me wrong.
    🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥
    Prove you wrong is so easy....
    Let’s look at the facts:
    “Denied due to staffing levels.”
    No PVD’s
    Only way to get time off is calling sick.
    Quality of life has not improve in years.
    And in January 1, 2019 Envoy Pilots will take another pay cut due to medical plan increase.

    ~let’s look at the facts~
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 11-12-2018 at 08:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Let me ask you. Are you in Beagleboy's camp? It sure seems like it from your postings. If so, then why are you still here? Why haven't you moved on to greener pastures?

    Let me give it to you straight. Beagle has been poisoning minds here for years now. YEARS. It's all due to his history and getting in the industry at the wrong time. He's a con man. Nothing more than a sleazy used car salesman.
    ME “poisoning minds” and a “sleazy used car salesman” ?

    Folks, what we have here is a textbook case of Psychological Projection. Look it up on Wiki and you’ll see they could post Dacuj’s picture there as an example in all its gapped-toothed glory. That is just one of his psychiatric disorders, but a critical one. Another question is why are YOU still here ? YOU don’t work for Envoy any longer and are no more special then anyone else, so what gives you the right to demand of others something you being in the identical situation refuse to do ?

    Looks like we can also can soundly add malignant hypocrisy to that cocktail of psychiatric disorders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    So, what about my statement wasn't true? Envoy is the hardest seat to get right now in the industry. Prove me wrong. Why is it that there are stacks of applicants out there just pining to get in the door? Why is it that the pipeline is spooled up to 100% now and guys are having to wait to get in? Riddle me that one Batman. Literally, there have been cheers in the conference room when guys get the green light and a class date. Why do you think that is? I recommend laying off the Beagle rat poison and look at the FACTS I stated above. If you disagree, then fine. Prove me wrong.
    What was a lie ?

    The claim what I posted was “fake” ? Anyone can confirm that on APC. Q.E.D.

    Why are F/O classes backed up ?

    Could it be because Envoy is at present overstaffed with F/O’s due to priority on getting captains through to hopefully keep feeding the 29/month flow (which is slated to slow dramatically) ? My argument says not just Envoy, but the entire regional industry has a pilot shortage and KNOWS it does and proof of that is the various carrots tossed out to get what’s left of the dwindling cadre of pilots into their doors. Carrots like bonuses that vaporize after 12 months and additionally in Envoy’s situation, street captains and 6-year flowthroughs to one of the least financially lucrative destinations among the top 6-7 U.S. Airlines as well as finally, Envoy management’s success in convincing Envoy ALPA to hand over the Holy Grail of this profession, that being seniority to pilots who aren’t even Envoy pilots.

    No “sales” here, but all demonstrably provable. Keep on projecting Mongo, it’s the only thing you’re proficient at and hey, have another cocktail while you’re at it.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 11-12-2018 at 10:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    ����������
    Prove you wrong is so easy....
    Let’s look at the facts:
    “Denied due to staffing levels.”
    No PVD’s
    Only way to get time off is calling sick.
    Quality of life has not improve in years.
    And in January 1, 2019 Envoy Pilots will take another pay cut due to medical plan increase.

    ~let’s look at the facts~

    From what I understand Envoy is over-staffed in many statuses, mostly F/O’s. So if this is occurring, I think there’s no real operational reason requiring it, it’s just the same systemic disease that’s always existed commonly rooted in Airlines that hate their pilots. Same reason thousands upon thousands of contract violations and associated grievances have occurred over the years. Some choose to not see this, others refuse to look away and still others demand you look away. Dacuj and company fall in the latter category.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 11-12-2018 at 09:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    ME “poisoning minds” and a “sleazy used car salesman” ?

    Folks, what we have here is a textbook case of Psychological Projection. Look it up on Wiki and you’ll see they could post Dacuj’s picture there as an example in all its gapped-toothed glory. That is just one of his psychiatric disorders, but a critical one. Another question is why are YOU still here ? YOU don’t work for Envoy any longer and are no more special then anyone else, so what gives you the right to demand of others something you being in the identical situation refuse to do ?

    Looks like we can also can soundly add malignant hypocrisy to that cocktail of psychiatric disorders.



    What was a lie ?

    The claim what I posted was “fake” ? Anyone can confirm that on APC. Q.E.D.

    Why are F/O classes backed up ?

    Could it be because Envoy is at present overstaffed with F/O’s due to priority on getting captains through to hopefully keep feeding the 29/month flow (which is slated to slow dramatically) ? My argument says not just Envoy, but the entire regional industry has a pilot shortage and KNOWS it does and proof of that is the various carrots tossed out to get what’s left of the dwindling cadre of pilots into their doors. Carrots like bonuses that vaporize after 12 months and additionally in Envoy’s situation, street captains and 6-year flowthroughs to one of the least financially lucrative destinations among the top 6-7 U.S. Airlines as well as finally, Envoy management’s success in convincing Envoy ALPA to hand over the Holy Grail of this profession, that being seniority to pilots who aren’t even Envoy pilots.

    No “sales” here, but all demonstrably provable. Keep on projecting Mongo, it’s the only thing you’re proficient at and hey, have another cocktail while you’re at it.
    I didn't ask you anything. I asked sirsnacksalot. Why would I ask you anything? I already know you are just going to vomit a bunch of: BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    I didn't ask you anything. I asked sirsnacksalot. Why would I ask you anything? I already know you are just going to vomit a bunch of: BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
    Why wouldn’t you ask me anything ?

    Hmm............well, you just DID ask me something on the other thread. If that’s the case why are you asking me anything anywhere ? The answer here in this situation is what we all know;

    You have no valid, coherent answer.

    BTW, more projection I see, a’la vomiting more “blah, blah, blah”, etc., in this case to assist with evasion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    ............
    But according to some veteran United pilots, generally only about one-quarter of such applicants have been doing well enough on initial interviews to warrant further testing and related scrutiny........
    .
    yet you have no problem with those same pilots carrying YOUR passengers at the regional affiliate....

    so what you’re really saying is that as long as you’re getting enough applicants from other places (your competitors) you aren’t going to harm your regional feed.
    __________________________________________________ __

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    Envoy and other regionals know how United feels. From most reports, an increasing percentage are turning out to be marginally or even completely unsuitable. That's why the claim (uncorroborated as usual) of Dacuj's about "apps on file" at Envoy isn't necessarily meaningful. Many of those apps fall into this category and others have long since moved on to greener pastures then Envoy with the possible AA chaser in 6 years or more. I think as time goes on, Envoy will find themselves racing increasingly faster through a dwindling pile of apps and at some point very few who remain interested or capable candidates outside the Pipeline Farm and that source cannot meet Envoy's future needs either in quantity or rate.

    Master Caution is still flashing and soon it will be Master Warning. A smart pilot will always have an "out" or alternate in range. Not so smart pilots will cross their fingers, ask for direct to the nearest suitable and pray.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Let me ask you. Are you in Beagleboy's camp? It sure seems like it from your postings. If so, then why are you still here? Why haven't you moved on to greener pastures?.
    I’m not in anyone’s “camp”. I tend to believe in current realities and past historical events which you seem to always want to ignore or deny. BB uses past history and his experiences within the AMR/AAG ranks as a basis for most of his narrative. While I don’t necessarily agree with everything he posts, he at least backs up his opinion with factual data, or points to things in the past that are relevant to the subject being discussed.
    Why I’m still here is multi-faceted.
    Upon my arrival here things were moving fast for the time and I was lucky enough to get hired at what was then the premier regional outfit. 9/11 happened and the stagnation that followed caused me to start thinking about other ways of making money. While still employed I embarked upon a second career and have been able to do that on the side while still flying. As time progressed and I accrued more seniority, I began to see that moving on to what others see as greener pastures might not be for me. I’ve been able to enjoy a quality of life schedule wise that I wouldn’t have had I flowed. Never once have I looked back with regret in that decision.
    You also tend to talk a lot of sh!t about those who have chosen to stay here. For the most part, those who have been here for 20+ years are damn good aviators. For you to imply that all lifers are losers tells me how clueless you truly are. Sure there are a few with quirks, but I ask you what place doesn’t have their share of notorious misfits?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Let me give it to you straight. Beagle has been poisoning minds here for years now. YEARS. It's all due to his history and getting in the industry at the wrong time. He's a con man. Nothing more than a sleazy used car salesman.
    The only car salesmen here are you and your band of inbred brothers touting the flow as the best thing ever and a guarantee. What you fail to mention is how it’s been altered more than a half dozen times since it’s incepton. Fact is that by noon tomorrow any number of disasterous unforseen events could cause that music to slow or screech to a halt.
    You give nothing “straight” and continue to refuse to answer questions or give actual factual data when asked. Instead, you resort to insults which doesn’t surprise me.
    Last edited by Sirsnacksalot; 11-14-2018 at 07:11 AM.

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