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Thread: Have you seen our Union? Do we even have a Union?

  1. #21
    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    OK, I'll see your bet and raise you 100. Envoy pilots are hired AS American Airlines pilots. They will never have to interview again. A simple departmental transfer is all that will happen. Notice comments on other forums. Envoy seats are HARD to come by. It's the most coveted seat in the industry, because of...the flow to AA. Essentially yes, you are an AA pilot on Day 1 of indoc at Envoy. Because of what is noted above. In addition, walking down the A terminal in DFW, you would be hard pressed to pick out an AA pilot vs. an Envoy pilot. Uniforms. Same. Airplanes. NN numbers owned by AAG just like AA's. Same Jetnet and DECS systems. Wholly easier for an Envoy pilot to simply transfer than bring an outside guy in and bring him up to speed on everything the Envoy pilot already knows and does each day.
    The ONLY difference is the envoy FO’s cannot feed a family/one meal a day/car payment/apartment with their salary. Other than that, we are all going to flow to a Bankrupt company.

  2. #22
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    “Essentially”
    I rest my case.
    You are NOT here anymore and your inability to answer simple questions I’ve asked you to answer only adds to your lack of credibility.
    You act as if you know facts yet you can’t pull em out of your ass.
    Your trolling of this site doesn’t go unnoticed by others you actually work with now. I’ve had some entertaining conversations with some of them since you made the move.
    Last edited by Sirsnacksalot; 10-30-2018 at 09:10 AM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    They’ll only fight for the pilots to a certain point. They’ve seen what happens when you go all in to fight for what’s right. They’ll only push hard enough to say they’re trying. Anything more makes them a target.

    Realistically, I don’t blame them one bit. ALPA at regionals is an oxymoron, and little more than window dressing.
    Yup. It’s easy to rationalize not rocking the boat too much when you believe YOUR life boat is on its way and will rescue you before your present one turtle shells. But, APA is in a similar situation by virtue of virtually no leverage to get anything resembling what present Delta pilots have now, let alone what they are likely to get next year. In effect, the “life boat” flows are counting on is really not as sea worthy as they think and as ultra-junior, they risk ending up in the leakiest part of their rescue boat when seas likely get rough in the future.

    I recommend hedging your bets if you are flowing and making sure your life jacket is stocked and in good shape.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 10-30-2018 at 09:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Dude, you are flying a junker 145 for Via Air of all places. At least Envoy 145s are top of the line with great maintenance and refurbed interiors. Let me ask you a question. Does Via have a flow?
    Those birds are as high-time as most others out there and have a limited life-span. The question is (one of MANY), how will AAG finance a fleet overhaul for Envoy (which WILL be necessary regardless of industry issues or economics) with their balance sheet ? I can think of one way, but it’s an ugly scenario for flows. Of course, there would be good news in that scenario. What, you ask ?

    Think of even newer, larger and shinier Envoy birds to post videos of here ! Imagine the Embraer E-190E2 ‘profit hunter’ in Envoy colors ! You would have died and gone to RJ heaven, yes ? If you are a future or present flow, you won’t be giddy with joy, I can assure you of that. At AA, you’ll be stagnating at junior Group II for years likely either on reserve, commuting or both. At Envoy, perhaps another $10/hour for captains and $6/hour for F/O’s (actually flying the new fleet type) and the rest of the present contract Swiss-cheese and all and for many years until you then can flow to what will then be the most constipated seniority list in the industry or bail elsewhere. Management gets rich and Envoy pilots will still be rowing their a**’s off for scraps, albeit some in newer, larger boats.

    Fun times !
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 10-30-2018 at 10:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Regardless of your status as a hater I think you will agree with me on one thing. Flying for Via Air is nowhere in the same UNIVERSE as flying for American Airlines.
    Flying for AA is now like flying for Spirit QWL wise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Regardless of your status as a hater I think you will agree with me on one thing. Flying for Via Air is nowhere in the same UNIVERSE as flying for American Airlines.

    Either is flying for Envoy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Regardless of your status as a hater I think you will agree with me on one thing. Flying for AA is nowhere in the same UNIVERSE as flying for Delta or United Airlines.
    Fixed it for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Nope have not seen them but I know they are around every 15th and 30th of the month. They leave a message on my pay deductions.
    You're a lifer here, why don't you get involved? I'm dead serious. We need old blood that here for the long haul.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    That's what happens when pilots with no experience as negotiators go up against a fortune 500 company and their lawyers, negotiators and analysts.
    That actually is a secondary problem. The MEC got exactly what the negotiated, an industry leading flow--at the expense of QOL here. I find it disturbing the my unions main goal is not to represent their members to their best extent and make the working environment at their company better. What they have spent the last ten years doing is focusing on trying to get me off an ALPA seniority list and on to another unions seniority list.

  10. #30
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    Alpa on this property always sucked

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Alpa on this property always sucked
    ALPA at any regional has always sucked.
    Their failure to “defend” the profession by dealing with this segment of the industry while it was in its infancy is their own fault. They are just as much to blame as the greedy MFers that have been the corporate leaders in this business for decades.

  12. #32
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Dude, you are flying a junker 145 for Via Air of all places. At least Envoy 145s are top of the line with great maintenance and refurbed interiors. Let me ask you a question. Does Via have a flow?
    I’ll tell that to my 767 sim instructor doing my PT next month.....



    I do recommend Via though. Crappy equipment can be replaced, a friendly supportive positive management team that treats their employees well is irreplaceable.
    paid well & treated well goes a long way.
    Last edited by Cujo665; 10-30-2018 at 08:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    Cool, I’ll tell that to my 767 sim instructor doing my PT next month.....

    I do recommend Via though. Crappy equipment can be replaced, a friendly supportive positive management team that treats their employees well is irreplaceable.
    He’s convinced he’s got everything and everyone figured out. Look at his posts......long on proclamations, but short on facts. In fact........bankrupt of them. Heck, he (along with his thug chums) still thinks I’m some washed up, short-changed old geezer who has been put out to pasture and so has an ax to grind against AA and Envoy. I actually want to see AA succeed (and realize to a certain degree Envoy must too). It makes them feel good about themselves and so I play along, but in reality they know nothing and have become hooked on their own B.S.

    Enjoy it.....it’s actually quite humorous.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 10-30-2018 at 09:16 PM.

  14. #34
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Heck, he (along with his thug chums) still think I’m some washed up, short-changed old geezer who has been put out to pasture and so has an ax to grind against AA and Envoy.

    Enjoy it.....it’s actually quite humorous.
    On #1, I know better

    on #2, yep, agreed.
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