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Thread: The Flow

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    The Flow


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    Excellent, excellent writeup from another forum encapsulating what the flow is about. Read and take note.

    AAG wants the majority of their pilot pool from its WO. They check more than PRIA records & employment records before flow/Indoc just like any other mainline. AAG has advantages by having flows from its WO.

    AAG is very smart in having a no interview flow. They entrust their WO regional recruiting department. They know everything about its WO pilot’s history. Data collection through saber and other programs in the training department is huge! From detailed training records and sim performances to weaknesses and strengths. From attendance record to details regarding disciplinary issues with CPO. From Sick time usage and troubles to line item data like on-time DP to fuel score card, to many other things you can imagine but are unaware that is data driven and tracked since WO NEW HIRE CLASS DATE. Im sure even your Line Check Airmen’s comments and scores in Saber are accessible/transferable to AAG. Overa AAG knows who they are getting and have a recorded history of behavior patter and how that pilot will fly at Mainline, how they will learning and how they will perform, or if they will have performance regressions, etc.

    Most of this is what I have heard from multiple sources. Overall Mainline knows the bad apples when they flow before they step foot at Mainline Indoc.

    The flow benefits mainline in a great way. Overall word is they are very pleased with the large majority of WO Pilots performance not only at the regional level, but when they arrive at mainline training, during IOE, and during probation, and while on the Line. More so than military and non-WO who are unfamiliar with the operations and have to take a bit long time getting adjusted. AA WO have overall knowledge of the operation similar & almost identical to AA FM-1 as WO FM-1,. From what i know WO Pilots, especially Envoy, are told to relax and to let go of the PTSD treatment they received from regional flight operations and scheduling at Envoy.

    AAG is not worried about the quality of Pilots. The WO are churning out great pilots for AAG’s operation. The WO regional carriers have a great training programs, many rumors and feedbacks from those that have flowed are that WO training programs are even tougher than mainline. Overall Line flying experiences from great captains and ALPA’s safety programs have produce high quality aviators & top notch training departments & overall safety records at Envoy, PDT, PSA. AA Mainline seems to trust its WO (ENY PSA PDT) production and product representation & integration unlike UA & DL which has to test/re-interview its aspirants from EDV-Delta/CPP Regionals-United already flying it’s products and customers which to me is TURD IN THE FACE.

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    I think I actually burned all you haters with this one. You know how true it rings and I see all of you p's out here looking but not commenting. Finally, some concrete info from someone other than ME and what I put out. Can't refute it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    I think I actually burned all you haters with this one. You know how true it rings and I see all of you p's out here looking but not commenting. Finally, some concrete info from someone other than ME and what I put out. Can't refute it.
    Yes, this proves without question you are indeed the exhaled Grand Cyclops of this forum. (Sarc) In fact, a Noble and Royal King worthy of absolute awe. (More sarc)

    The demonstrations of your ridiculous and embarrassing posts aside, I actually agree with most of the opinion of the original source at least in general theory. To wit, it’s obvious that the methodology of the flow allows much greater vetting of prospective future pilots then outside recruitment with often incomplete paperwork and relatively brief direct exposure. Be that as it is though, it’s immaterial to AA’s future issues and risks and that’s being able to train enough pilots fast enough and not crippling its regionals including Envoy in the process. AA could take all the Envoy pilots it wants, but it won’t be able to replace them at Envoy fast enough in perpetuity. They could staple all Envoy pilots but that would shy away most military pilots and others who are more selective who have no interest in spending many years being kicked in the teeth flying Envoy’s FAR bankruptcy contract only to transition many years later to AA’s 6th place and falling bankruptcy contract. Convincing people to become pilots and then live for years in the present Envoy environment for a hoped for transition to the largest LCC in the world (at present) is their conundrum. It’s especially shaky considering the hideous debt they’ll have to take on, but then again AAG is the king of the hill when it comes to hideous debt.

    The post above discussing quality though currently is benchmarked on present Eagle system flows all of who have many years at their regionals and most were held to higher new-hire qualifications then present and I’d thus argue were for the most part pilots with stronger aptitude for this job then many of the present crop, although we know some gap-toothed mouth breathers did slip through in the past having since racked up a frightening history of busted checkrides. That’s not to say there aren’t fine pilots coming up through the ranks now, just less of them and that is the problem as proven by “street” captains and first-year lollipop’s of up to $100K which vaporize in year 2 once the fish has bitten down on the hook.

    Word at AA is things are unraveling in the pilot staffing and QWL departments and it’s being run more like Envoy with each passing day. The stock price is at (or near) its 52-week low and inching closer to its immediate post bankruptcy price, it looks like even the most recently downward revised profit forecast may come up short of that due to fuel prices which many analysts believe have yet to peak, is hamstrung in aircraft acquisition and pilot utilization only having the ability to shuffle present aircraft around, jam more seats in the cabin torturing their customers more and fly present pilots more on the backside of the clock due to liquidity and staffing, labor relations with all three front-line labor groups are arguably at levels worse then pre-bankruptcy and again there’s also that debt..........and OMG, is that a lot of debt. All indications of airline in increasing peril if you ask me and with all that have yet to experience the inevitable trigger for the next industry down cycle, whatever that turns out to be. Jesus, will that turn things from alarming to downright ugly or what ?

    Your latest horn honk is all nice and fine, but has nothing to do with the very real issues that are likely to befall future (and recent) flows at AA IMO. If I were you I’d be more concerned with the road my car is on and where it is heading, not who last changed its oil or how good that oil may be.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 10-09-2018 at 08:58 AM.

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    Registered User Dacuj's Avatar
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    Once AGAIN, you totally ignore that we are swimming in applicants. They are literally lined up from the front door down to Waco for a shot at working at the Voy/AA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Once AGAIN, you totally ignore that we are swimming in applicants. They are literally lined up from the front door down to Waco for a shot at working at the Voy/AA.
    Once again, YOU ignore both the reality that will not last in perpetuity. Why ? Because Envoy can barely allow the minimum flow rate now as it can’t train more then they are at present. Not enough Captains or Check Airman who flow too fast and so Envoy essentially has a “flow governor” limiting its ability to flow. Similarly, flight schools that feed a Envoy are also bogged down due to lack of CFI’s who leave too soon disrupting their own training engines. Outside people interested in Airline pilot jobs (formerly a “Profession”) are and will remain wholly insufficient. Besides, your highness, you were talking quality, not quantity. But more importantly for Envoy pilots, as I opined, if the AA house of cards collapses it won’t matter how many Envoy pilots are lined up “down to Waco”, because they will have nowhere to flow TO for what could be a very significant period of time and thus would be spending much longer enjoying the good life at “the Voy”. That’s the risk they are taking.

    IMO, considering the FACTS of AA’s present situation and just as importantly its future viability, that’s one heck of a risk if you ask me.

    CAVEAT EMPTOR
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 10-09-2018 at 09:08 AM.

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    What a typical douchebag response. As if I didn't expect it. You have NO knowledge of what is out there in respect to pilot supply. Have you been to the partner aviation universities? I know you haven't so let me inform you. They are FULL. As I've stated REPEATEDLY, AAG got out in front of this thing long ago and and has cemented these relationships ensuring the pilot supply at Envoy is overflowing with capacity far into the future. In addition, how about those MASSIVE retirements at AA over the next 8 years brainiac? Seems as if you've forgotten this.

    "if the AA house of cards collapses it won’t matter how many Envoy pilots are lined up “down to Waco”, because they will have nowhere to flow TO"

    LMFAO!! You really are a piece of work. "AA House of Cards?" Yeah, I'll buy that. Maybe you don't yet realize that AA is the LARGEST major airline in the world. It ain't gonna fail you moron. So, the second point of your little bash above is moot. Just like your whole post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    I think I actually burned all you haters with this one. You know how true it rings and I see all of you p's out here looking but not commenting. Finally, some concrete info from someone other than ME and what I put out. Can't refute it.
    What are you like in the eighth grade or something?!
    Oooooooh burn!
    Grow the F up.
    Nothing, I repeat NOTHING is concrete in this industry.
    Unforeseen circumstances always materialize sooner or later that will affect all aspects of this business.
    Keep on drinking...

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    Registered User Dacuj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    What are you like in the eighth grade or something?!
    Oooooooh burn!
    Grow the F up.
    Nothing, I repeat NOTHING is concrete in this industry.
    Unforeseen circumstances always materialize sooner or later that will affect all aspects of this business.
    Keep on drinking...
    So, are you saying that you agree with the information in the post I copied here from the other forum?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    What a typical douchebag response. As if I didn't expect it. You have NO knowledge of what is out there in respect to pilot supply. Have you been to the partner aviation universities? I know you haven't so let me inform you. They are FULL. As I've stated REPEATEDLY, AAG got out in front of this thing long ago and and has cemented these relationships ensuring the pilot supply at Envoy is overflowing with capacity far into the future. In addition, how about those MASSIVE retirements at AA over the next 8 years brainiac? Seems as if you've forgotten this.

    "if the AA house of cards collapses it won’t matter how many Envoy pilots are lined up “down to Waco”, because they will have nowhere to flow TO"

    LMFAO!! You really are a piece of work. "AA House of Cards?" Yeah, I'll buy that. Maybe you don't yet realize that AA is the LARGEST major airline in the world. It ain't gonna fail you moron. So, the second point of your little bash above is moot. Just like your whole post.
    "Douchebag response" ?

    Either off your meds or on the sauce (again).......and so early in the day if the latter. Relax Moe. Larry and/or Curly should be along shortly to talk you down from the ledge and pat you on the back. I do read industry information and talk to sources that have eons more credibility then you and no agenda to boot, so yes I'm comfortable with my position. As for AA, you can click your heels until they break Dorothy, but you can't change AA's present situation nor make their serious risks disappear, but keep wishing there's no place like home if it works for you. It's natural to not want to think about or confront unpleasant realities, that's why humans rationalize and embrace denial so easily. Should AA's "house of cards" collapse, the retirement schedule in all likelihood will be meaningless as it might just be AA's move to shrink to profitability through attrition. Of course, considering that strategy has a VERY poor history of success, it doesn't seem a viable option, which is my point; AA might not have many options. Will AA "disappear" ?

    I don't think so (the brand alone is iconic even though now associated by many as commensurate with mediocrity), but it might change DRAMATICALLY and that my poor, intoxicated friend is no friend to your beloved flow. The list is long for threats to the flow like it or not. Oh and again (as you should know)............SIZE doesn't matter. Solvency and shareholder value does. You know ZERO about my knowledge, only think you do and that and $3 will by you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 10-09-2018 at 11:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    So, are you saying that you agree with the information in the post I copied here from the other forum?
    I think your mental condition demands you be validated more then being correct. Aside from its lack of relevance to the most important issues at hand for Envoy flows, your original post wasn't even yours and you are now trying to peddle it as something you should be given credit for. Always the salesman, even if it's not your own product.

    What was it Dean Wormer told Flounder again about going through life ?

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    Funny how the President of AAG thinks different from Dacuj...

    Right now, American’s priority is to successfully complete the post-merger integration, but “there are areas in which we do have extra head count,” American's president said.

    He did not quantify the reduction, nor did he say what departments or job functions could be trimmed. He also did not say whether any thinning of the ranks would be accomplished through attrition, layoffs, buyouts or another form.

    “I believe over time we will pull it back and become more efficient, but right now, I think we’re doing the right thing to make sure we get everything running right and get the integration done,” he said.

    “Over time, (head count) will come down, as we move forward.”
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 10-09-2018 at 12:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    So, are you saying that you agree with the information in the post I copied here from the other forum?
    Seek help for your reading comprehension skills and your alcoholic consumption at this time of day. I realize “it’s 5 o’clock somewhere”, but seriously...

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    Not a good day for Airline stocks;

    The two premier legacy carriers Delta and United are down 2.5-3%. The largest LCC American fell about 6.5%. Over half a decade out of BK with most of the "synergies" in place, AA stock is only about $11 more then its original post BK offering and WAY down from its peak price. Most definitely not a confidence building situation and investors must be concerned. The question now is, "how low will it go" ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Not a good day for Airline stocks;

    The two premier legacy carriers Delta and United are down 2.5-3%. The largest LCC American fell about 6.5%. Over half a decade out of BK with most of the "synergies" in place, AA stock is only about $11 more then its original post BK offering and WAY down from its peak price. Most definitely not a confidence building situation and investors must be concerned. The question now is, "how low will it go" ?
    The question now is, "how low will it go"

    Oil prices continued their ascent last month, with the global benchmark Brent rising nearly 8% and topping $82 per barrel for the first time in four years, after OPEC said it wouldn't boost its production. That fed the belief that oil prices could head even higher in the coming year as Iran's supplies come off the market due to U.S. sanctions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    The question now is, "how low will it go"

    Oil prices continued their ascent last month, with the global benchmark Brent rising nearly 8% and topping $82 per barrel for the first time in four years, after OPEC said it wouldn't boost its production. That fed the belief that oil prices could head even higher in the coming year as Iran's supplies come off the market due to U.S. sanctions.
    I think corporate financials tend to lag behind present reality, so I’d expect Q4 to show more regression than Q3 at least as meeting profit metrics as impacted by various outside issues. Stock price varies, but for AA it’s been quite a downward trend, more so then their competition.

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    FWIW, AA Training center says 50 pilots a CLASS with 2 to 3 classes a month......and Envoy will flow 29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    FWIW, AA Training center says 50 pilots a CLASS with 2 to 3 classes a month......and Envoy will flow 29.
    And AA stock closed at $31.61.
    Is a RED FLAGS parade.
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 10-10-2018 at 06:07 PM.

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    please tell me why our union negotiated this 29 crap, instead of holding the company to their 50%?

    oh.....maybe because we are to busy giving them band-aids to help fix their incompetent manager decisions.

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    Because the pilots wanted more than 20. So now they have 29. Like the saying goes, be careful for what you ask for, you may just get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    FWIW, AA Training center says 50 pilots a CLASS with 2 to 3 classes a month......and Envoy will flow 29.
    Total BS from a known forum idiot.

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