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Thread: 75% of Envoy employees on food stamps asks Congress

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    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    75% of Envoy employees on food stamps asks Congress


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    Its corporate welfare disguised as public safety net programs. It allows employers like American to pay sub standard and profit the rest further exasperating employee management pay disparity.

    https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk...od-stamps.html
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    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    PSA pilot recounts why he left the airlines due to the poor pay and lousy working conditions at one of American Airlines owned regional airlines. Story picked up by Dallas news.

    https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk...plain-why.html
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    Iím sure pay will go up when the economy takes a dump. Itís ok that itís so relatively low right now and that fast food workers in many cases makes more than rampers sweating their balls off

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    Actually remove the bonuses that f/o's get and go to first year pay as our contract is you would realize fast food workers get paid more than the f/o"s here. Plus captains make less than the manager at the fast food place also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    Its corporate welfare disguised as public safety net programs. It allows employers like American to pay sub standard and profit the rest further exasperating employee management pay disparity.

    https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk...od-stamps.html
    ...and people wonder why the quality of the regional product has the reputation it does.

    You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ***hole as one version of the saying goes. I remember hearing years ago that at ORD one day a significant portion of the rampers quit (resulting in chaos) and went over to a United Express carrier across the alley because they could start at the same pay it took years to make at then Eagle. Sounds like nothing has changed. Congress holding dog and Pony show hearings is a crock though as they are a major reason why companies like Envoy can allegedly pay their people a "pittance" as the author describes. I predict this momentary sideshow will quickly die down and it will be back to business as usual with the product to remain as is.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 09-17-2018 at 09:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Actually remove the bonuses that f/o's get and go to first year pay as our contract is you would realize fast food workers get paid more than the f/o"s here. Plus captains make less than the manager at the fast food place also.
    Yet you remain here and you're not even here for the flow. I'm not trying to be a **** head. There are so many great corporate gigs out there that pay narrow body pay, etc. Maybe you should take some of your own advice. Flame away if you want but I truly mean it. Think about it, in this market you have your pick of any job you want. Those remain, do so by choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    PSA pilot recounts why he left the airlines due to the poor pay and lousy working conditions at one of American Airlines owned regional airlines. Story picked up by Dallas news.

    https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk...plain-why.html
    Good for him......not because he bailed on PSA, but because he decided what made HIM happy and had the fortitude to pursue it. For him, the realities of tolerating the regional existence for that type of treatment and compensation weren't worth the claimed carrot that is currently being dangled. Some employers create environments and provide motivations that inspire and others that alienate. Few in this line of work (formerly a "profession") have the insight and courage to aggressively pursue the former and avoid the latter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robsquatch View Post
    I’m sure pay will go up when the economy takes a dump. It’s ok that it’s so relatively low right now and that fast food workers in many cases makes more than rampers sweating their balls off
    It's easier to hold a mop in your hand for the same (or even more) pay then breaking your back throwing bags outside in all kinds of weather. Once the economy tanks for whatever reason (not if, but when), there will be less need to ramp up (no pun intended) pay as then demand slows to better be met by supply. In the case of AA and pilots, if contraction is necessary and AA takes a breather from hiring and furloughs from the top due to retirement attrition, the flow slams to a halt. Isn't it scheduled to slow to a trickle (15/month) anyway ? No need to throw more money at pilots then as Envoy's attrition slows dramatically and Envoy's pilot costs go down. Of course, they then get less pilots as well which is not good either as others have correctly said an active flow is the only real carrot getting pilots in the door at all. That's realities by-product when your "Association" leadership gives away the house, furniture, garage and lot and shuts down the plumbing for the promise of a predictable future move uptown. At some point, you end up having to live in your own waste for longer then you hoped for or thought.

    It's inevitably a losing hand and the longer you've held that hand, the higher the odds you lose.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 09-17-2018 at 09:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meatloaf View Post
    Yet you remain here and you're not even here for the flow. I'm not trying to be a **** head. There are so many great corporate gigs out there that pay narrow body pay, etc. Maybe you should take some of your own advice. Flame away if you want but I truly mean it. Think about it, in this market you have your pick of any job you want. Those remain, do so by choice.
    It just may be that many more pilots then thought end up not being here for the flow................at least not in any reasonable time frame. They came here hoping for advertised flow and it very well may not work out that way. I'll bet virtually all of them won't follow through on chest-thumping claims they'll bail on Envoy either. They'll continue to believe and wait as after all, what else can most do if no one else calls.......start over at another regional ?

    Nope, 95% of the pilots here outside the "lifers" who are just riding it out are no more then gerbils on a running wheel and as long as there's at least the promise of some sugar water coming out of the little tube even if at some later undetermined time, they will keep running until they flop. Complaining a lot yes, but still running.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 09-17-2018 at 09:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    It's easier to hold a mop in your hand for the same (or even more) pay then breaking your back throwing bags outside in all kinds of weather. Once the economy tanks for whatever reason (not if, but when), there will be less need to ramp up (no pun intended) pay as then demand slows to better be met by supply. In the case of AA and pilots, if contraction is necessary and AA takes a breather from hiring and furloughs from the top due to retirement attrition, the flow slams to a halt. Isn't it scheduled to slow to a trickle (15/month) anyway ? No need to throw more money at pilots then as Envoy's attrition slows dramatically and Envoy's pilot costs go down. Of course, they then get less pilots as well which is not good either as others have correctly said an active flow is the only real carrot getting pilots in the door at all. That's realities by-product when your "Association" leadership gives away the house, furniture, garage and lot and shuts down the plumbing for the promise of a predictable future move uptown. At some point, you end up having to live in your own waste for longer then you hoped for or thought.

    It's inevitably a losing hand and the longer you've held that hand, the higher the odds you lose.
    ďIn the case of AA and pilots, if contraction is necessary and AA takes a breather from hiring and furloughs from the top due to retirement attrition, the flow slams to a halt.Ē

    Donít forget, parking 95 planes in 24 months. But the boneyard is going to get a lot bigger in the near future. And I mean a lot bigger. The clock keeps ticking, and all new delivery numbers will be lot smaller than....well time will tell. The flow has a date, and is just a matter of time.

    And the possibility of an integration/merger/acquisition or however you want to call it with a company from the west, and if they get date of hire like has happened before, they will flow before some of our own guys. But I am sure there is a provision in our contract to prevent that. I really hope there is.
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 09-17-2018 at 01:33 PM.

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    I walked away in 2015. Protected pilot. 2008 hire. Many variables for me and every situation is different. However, my decision has worked out for me. Gotta do what feels right. Remember, every situation is different. Donít let these message boards persuade you. Follow your heart.

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    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meatloaf View Post
    Yet you remain here and you're not even here for the flow. I'm not trying to be a **** head. There are so many great corporate gigs out there that pay narrow body pay, etc. Maybe you should take some of your own advice. Flame away if you want but I truly mean it. Think about it, in this market you have your pick of any job you want. Those remain, do so by choice.
    i agree with you, but what I said is still valid. I don't flame anyone for an honest conversation.
    Sir, can I have another.

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