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Thread: PDT pilots sink TA

  1. #21
    Registered User DolphinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    The clock is ticking, unless you are a protected pilot, you are going to see who had bad info. The Non-PP’s are going to learn a Big lesson after the PP group is gone. But one that will make them grow up as a group.
    You are the one with bad info brah. Let me guess. You are a disgruntled lifer too old to flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    What a dumb a** statement.

    Newsflash Einstein. As long as AA is hiring the flow doesn’t stop. It’s CONTRACTUAL.
    Like everything else in the contract the company doesn't honor? Like the flow for PP they weren't honoring hence why they agreed to increase the flow?

  3. #23
    Registered User DolphinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    Like everything else in the contract the company doesn't honor? Like the flow for PP they weren't honoring hence why they agreed to increase the flow?
    WTF are you talking about? The flow hasn't been violated dipstick. Not. One. Single. Time. Its only been increised. Stop coming on here lying. What are you BBs lapdog?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    WTF are you talking about? The flow hasn't been violated dipstick. Not. One. Single. Time. Its only been increised. Stop coming on here lying. What are you BBs lapdog?
    Please...it might not have been violated in your terms, but it wasn't being honored in the full sense it should have been.

    Like the company does with everything, they twist it to fit their agenda. The same is going to happen after the PP group.

    Before you spew your hatred rant towards me, metering was never the full intent and shouldn't have been allowed. Therefore to everyone not in bed with management will agree.....the flow was being violated as it was written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    WTF are you talking about? The flow hasn't been violated dipstick. Not. One. Single. Time. Its only been increised. Stop coming on here lying. What are you BBs lapdog?
    To avoid arbitration, the company and union agreed to increase flow and add 9 more flows. Did you forget about that?

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    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    You are the one with bad info brah. Let me guess. You are a disgruntled lifer too old to flow.
    😂😂😂
    Bad info again...and yes The Flow will Stop. PM me in the next 5 minutes, will be glad to meet, and will show you the proof, that the flow will stop. The info will make you update your apps with Delta and United. And remember, I only tell the truth, even when I lie.

    The clock keeps ticking...
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 09-02-2018 at 08:20 PM.

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    Hey Flipper!
    Ever hear the term “Force Majeure”?
    How about “Operational necessity”?
    With your head so far up your exhaust stack, I’m thinking not.
    Flow stoppage? Never say never.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    WTF are you talking about? The flow hasn't been violated dipstick. Not. One. Single. Time. Its only been increised. Stop coming on here lying. What are you BBs lapdog?
    IIRC, they did indeed violate the current flow at least 1 month in the past (2017 ?) requiring a subsequent correction when they were called on it by the Association. In fact, management also lost an arbitration on Letter 3 (TWA - Nicolau) requiring hundreds of additional pilots by awarded flow for the violation.

    Clearly, you come across like someone else’s Teacup Chihuahua and from my POV with all your rage, foaming at the mouth and biting everyone, you appear rabid. Arf..........Arf........angry little Teacup. But of course, angry as you are, we all know you are toothless.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 09-03-2018 at 08:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    😂😂😂
    Bad info again...and yes The Flow will Stop. PM me in the next 5 minutes, will be glad to meet, and will show you the proof, that the flow will stop. The info will make you update your apps with Delta and United. And remember, I only tell the truth, even when I lie.

    The clock keeps ticking...
    I’m interested to see this evidence you have that the flow will stop. Although I think flipper and Dacuj are often (almost always) way off base, I also think the assertion that the flow will stop while AA is hiring is also ridiculous. So, please, enlighten us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by copycopy View Post
    I’m interested to see this evidence you have that the flow will stop. Although I think flipper and Dacuj are often (almost always) way off base, I also think the assertion that the flow will stop while AA is hiring is also ridiculous. So, please, enlighten us.
    He has nothing. If he had anything, he would post it. Cryptic fortune teller crap is an old online aviation forum tradition. And 99.9% of the time wrong. .

  11. #31
    Super Moderator Cujo665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    The flow hasn't been violated dipstick. Not. One. Single. Time
    . Its only been increised. Stop coming on here lying. What are you BBs lapdog?

    That is factually false. Have they made it up the following months, yes.... but it cost those guys an extra few months seniority; and THAT is a huge thing.
    Have they been doing better than they historically have at following a contract provision, yes. But don't lie and say they never were outside the agreement.

    The flow is the one thing allowing them to continue with wages and work rules that are still in the dark ages compared to the other large WO. They can't mess with it too much. As long as AA is hiring, Envoy guys will flow. Basic math.

    3 years ago I said that if they played their cards right, that our entire pilot list (at the time) would flow to AA just inside of 6 years just based upon AA attrition from retirements and getting 1/2 the slots. That is almost exactly what is happening.
    Last edited by Cujo665; 09-07-2018 at 07:48 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post



    That is factually false. Have they made it up the following months, yes.... but it cost those guys an extra few months seniority; and THAT is a huge thing.
    Have they been doing better than they historically have at following a contract provision, yes. But don't lie and say they never were outside the agreement.

    The flow is the one thing allowing them to continue with wages and work rules that are still in the dark ages compared to the other large WO. They can't mess with it too much. As long as AA is hiring, Envoy guys will flow. Basic math.

    3 years ago I said that if they played their cards right, that our entire pilot list (at the time) would flow to AA just inside of 6 years just based upon AA attrition from retirements and getting 1/2 the slots. That is almost exactly what is happening.


    Couldn't have said it better myself. And in your last paragraph just contradicted yourself. The flow hasn't been violated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    [/B]Couldn't have said it better myself. And in your last paragraph just contradicted yourself. The flow hasn't been violated.

    Oh, it most certainly has been. They did make it up at a later date, but never really made those guys whole for the lost seniority on the AA side. Which is why I said it was ALMOST exactly what is happening.

    It's still a good deal for the protected pilots and pre 01-01-2016 folks (or was it 12-23-2015?)….. whenever it was signed; the guys hired afterwards will be facing much longer flow times. The pilot group isn't 1600 pilots anymore, and the flow rate contractually reduces to a PSA/PDT style trickle.
    More pilots + slower flow = much longer time from new hire to flow. again, basic math.

    That said, as soon as it begins to fail at being a big draw, they'll either fix the wages and work rules, or fix the flow.

    The AAG regionals are still the only ones with a mainline job waiting without applying or interviewing. That still has value.
    Last edited by Cujo665; 09-07-2018 at 08:19 AM.
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    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C140pilot View Post
    He has nothing. If he had anything, he would post it. Cryptic fortune teller crap is an old online aviation forum tradition. And 99.9% of the time wrong. .
    I wil let time be the teller, really hope you are in the protected pilot group. Get very involved with your union, it might be your only way out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    I wil let time be the teller, really hope you are in the protected pilot group. Get very involved with your union, it might be your only way out.
    You never have anything of value to post. Just the same old clickbait and BS "I know something that is going to happen that is BAD so be ready." Get a life dude. You are nothing but troll bait and are just HUMILIATING yourself here! Nobody and I mean NOBODY pays any attention to your BS anymore!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post



    That is factually false. Have they made it up the following months, yes.... but it cost those guys an extra few months seniority; and THAT is a huge thing.
    Have they been doing better than they historically have at following a contract provision, yes. But don't lie and say they never were outside the agreement.


    Again, let's not forget the many violations of Letter 3 resulting in multiple arbitrations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    The flow is the one thing allowing them to continue with wages and work rules that are still in the dark ages compared to the other large WO. They can't mess with it too much. As long as AA is hiring, Envoy guys will flow. Basic math.
    Yes, the primary reason they can even GET pilots to come to Envoy has been the flow and since that is the true carrot, it has to be presented as being delicious as possible, hence the aggressive, pushy salesmen here. IMO, if the flow didn't exist, considering how many there describe Envoy's pay and working conditions, I assert it would have already been placed on life support by now. Also again, Envoy in particular is in Catch-22 situation because of the flow. If AA stops hiring and the flow stops, Envoy is again at great risk for foundering. The "catch" though is if Envoy cannot move 25 captains/month to AA without negatively impacting staffing, they contract and again risk foundering, albeit slower. IIRC, the flow is slated to slow to 15 PPM at some point in the near future and if so, that would mean a slower ride to AA for those choosing to stay, but increasing difficulty for recruitment and also likely increasing outside attrition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    3 years ago I said that if they played their cards right, that our entire pilot list (at the time) would flow to AA just inside of 6 years just based upon AA attrition from retirements and getting 1/2 the slots. That is almost exactly what is happening.
    But it's only happening because AAG and Envoy management have been willing to increase their regional pilot labor costs substantially. That reason is because there IS a pilot shortage at the regional carriers that is destined to only intensify. At what point does throwing money at regional new-hires no longer be financially prudent or profitable ? While the projections of 3 years ago and a smaller pilot group might mean all 1600 of those pilots will have the opportunity to flow to AA, that in no way means those hired today can rely on an equal chance of meeting their AA flow projection. Today's environment from a global, industry and AA specific standpoint includes many serious red flags that were not present 3 years ago. I think all Envoy pilots today regardless of where their seat assignment on the AA flow train is should not assume they will board as promised and the farther from boarding they are, the more tenuous that schedule for them is.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 09-07-2018 at 11:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    You never have anything of value to post. Just the same old clickbait and BS "I know something that is going to happen that is BAD so be ready." Get a life dude. You are nothing but troll bait and are just HUMILIATING yourself here! Nobody and I mean NOBODY pays any attention to your BS anymore!
    Says the most valueless member of this forum from a substance standpoint. Hypocrisy at its finest.

  18. #38
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    The only way to solve this beef is a WWE cage match.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Again, let's not forget the many violations of Letter 3 resulting in multiple arbitrations.



    Yes, the primary reason they can even GET pilots to come to Envoy has been the flow and since that is the true carrot, it has to be presented as being delicious as possible, hence the aggressive, pushy salesmen here. IMO, if the flow didn't exist, considering how many there describe Envoy's pay and working conditions, I assert it would have already been placed on life support by now. Also again, Envoy in particular is in Catch-22 situation because of the flow. If AA stops hiring and the flow stops, Envoy is again at great risk for foundering. The "catch" though is if Envoy cannot move 25 captains/month to AA without negatively impacting staffing, they contract and again risk foundering, albeit slower. IIRC, the flow is slated to slow to 15 PPM at some point in the near future and if so, that would mean a slower ride to AA for those choosing to stay, but increasing difficulty for recruitment and also likely increasing outside attrition.



    But it's only happening because AAG and Envoy management have been willing to increase there regional pilot labor costs substantially. That reason is because there IS a pilot shortage at the regional carriers that is destined to only intensify. At what point does throwing money at regional new-hires no longer be financially prudent or profitable ? While the projections of 3 years ago and a smaller pilot group might mean all 1600 of those pilots will have the opportunity to flow to AA, that in no way means those hired today can rely on an equal chance of meeting their AA flow projection. Today's environment from a global, industry and AA specific standpoint includes many serious red flags that were not present 3 years ago. I think all Envoy pilots today regardless of where their seat assignment on the AA flow train is should not assume they will board as promised and the farther from boarding they are, the more tenuous that schedule for them is.
    OMG! The same tiring BS "red flag" campaign thing again. Let me ask you something. Are you not aware that there is a LINE to get into Envoy right now? I know you are NOT aware because you DON'T WORK HERE! There are zero, ZERO problems recruiting. Did you hear that? ZERO. We are getting highly qualified applicants from other carriers, previous careers and the pipeline program is a total bonanza in providing the most qualified brand new 121 aviators anytime in history. The flow is not stopping. Maybe you forgot already but it recently INCREASED. What does that tell the average guy visiting this forum? That your "red flag" campaign is nothing but another bogus, BS attempt at trying to convince the masses that Envoy is "foundering." I think you've said that Envoy was "foundering" in previous posts, yet here you say that Envoy "may be at great risk of foundering." So, which is it? My advice is the same as it has always been. Get a shrink and then get a life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    Oh, it most certainly has been. They did make it up at a later date, but never really made those guys whole for the lost seniority on the AA side. Which is why I said it was ALMOST exactly what is happening.

    It's still a good deal for the protected pilots and pre 01-01-2016 folks (or was it 12-23-2015?)….. whenever it was signed; the guys hired afterwards will be facing much longer flow times. The pilot group isn't 1600 pilots anymore, and the flow rate contractually reduces to a PSA/PDT style trickle.
    More pilots + slower flow = much longer time from new hire to flow. again, basic math.

    That said, as soon as it begins to fail at being a big draw, they'll either fix the wages and work rules, or fix the flow.

    The AAG regionals are still the only ones with a mainline job waiting without applying or interviewing. That still has value.
    Wrong, wrong, wrong. The flow hasn't been violated. If there was any "violation," it was unintentional and has, by your own words, been rectified and made whole.

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