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Thread: Food for thought.

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    Food for thought.


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    I’ve heard that APA wants to put the following clauses in their 2019 contract:

    - Furlough Protection:
    -- Furloughed pilots will be offered CA positions at wholly owned regional partners at each partners top pay rate
    --- Pilots will be assigned positions (wholly owned company, bases, equipment) in accordance with existing AA seniority within the furloughed group
    --- There is no expiration of position at the wholly owned regional company.
    --- Furloughed pilots will be ahead of all regional seniority lists (within AA group furloughed seniority) in regards to seniority, position, bid statuses, pay & benefits
    --- Under no circumstances will any wholly owned “flow” until every furloughed pilot has been offered recall
    -- Furloughed Pilots will come back on property with full seniority/benefits as if they had been on property
    --- Furlough returns will NOT be considered “flow through pilots” upon return
    --- Pilots declining recall will return with seniority/benefits at a time when first offered recall
    -- Furloughed pilots may sell back their sick leave and accrued vacation at 1:1 with B Fund Contributions
    -- Furloughed pilots accepting CA positions at wholly owned partners will keep AA travel and pass benefits for the duration of furlough

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    Registered User Dacuj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdflyer View Post
    I’ve heard that APA wants to put the following clauses in their 2019 contract:

    - Furlough Protection:
    -- Furloughed pilots will be offered CA positions at wholly owned regional partners at each partners top pay rate
    --- Pilots will be assigned positions (wholly owned company, bases, equipment) in accordance with existing AA seniority within the furloughed group
    --- There is no expiration of position at the wholly owned regional company.
    --- Furloughed pilots will be ahead of all regional seniority lists (within AA group furloughed seniority) in regards to seniority, position, bid statuses, pay & benefits
    --- Under no circumstances will any wholly owned “flow” until every furloughed pilot has been offered recall
    -- Furloughed Pilots will come back on property with full seniority/benefits as if they had been on property
    --- Furlough returns will NOT be considered “flow through pilots” upon return
    --- Pilots declining recall will return with seniority/benefits at a time when first offered recall
    -- Furloughed pilots may sell back their sick leave and accrued vacation at 1:1 with B Fund Contributions
    -- Furloughed pilots accepting CA positions at wholly owned partners will keep AA travel and pass benefits for the duration of furlough
    Some meal. Guess you missed the part about the multiple THOUSANDS of retirements at AA over the next 10 years alone.

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    Guess you didn’t read my previous comment that you quoted. I personally don’t think AA is going to furlough.

    I do find it interesting that APA wants these clauses in their contract though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdflyer View Post
    I’ve heard that APA wants to put the following clauses in their 2019 contract:

    - Furlough Protection:
    -- Furloughed pilots will be offered CA positions at wholly owned regional partners at each partners top pay rate
    --- Pilots will be assigned positions (wholly owned company, bases, equipment) in accordance with existing AA seniority within the furloughed group
    --- There is no expiration of position at the wholly owned regional company.
    --- Furloughed pilots will be ahead of all regional seniority lists (within AA group furloughed seniority) in regards to seniority, position, bid statuses, pay & benefits
    --- Under no circumstances will any wholly owned “flow” until every furloughed pilot has been offered recall
    -- Furloughed Pilots will come back on property with full seniority/benefits as if they had been on property
    --- Furlough returns will NOT be considered “flow through pilots” upon return
    --- Pilots declining recall will return with seniority/benefits at a time when first offered recall
    -- Furloughed pilots may sell back their sick leave and accrued vacation at 1:1 with B Fund Contributions
    -- Furloughed pilots accepting CA positions at wholly owned partners will keep AA travel and pass benefits for the duration of furlough
    This would seem to require agreement of other carriers pilots unions. I can’t see forced hijacking of other pilots legal flying a tenable position among other non-regional and regional pilots. In the past, it required negotiation and agreement (flawed as it was). APA will be asking for a lot of things and each thing asked will have a price tag attached (valuation). AA management will also be asking for things and so to get X or a bunch of X’s, it will require relinquishment of some Y’s in return.

    Of course, if AA is forced to file BK or believes doing so will result in more potential rewards for the possible risks, then APA loses most of what little leverage they now have. I haven’t heard this, but this sounds like a real Hail Mary. The present stock price is in the upper 30’s and started in the low 20’s after the most recent BK. Protecting shareholder value would be paramount and depending on how a restructured AA and Eagle system was accomplished, it could actually provide a better ROI for stockholders vs. saddled with huge debt and hamstrung on cost/revenue generation. The next AA BK might just be a pre-planned phase II that was kept on ice to use when needed. All that’s left is the catalyst.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Some meal. Guess you missed the part about the multiple THOUSANDS of retirements at AA over the next 10 years alone.
    Substantially less meaning under certain circumstances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdflyer View Post
    Guess you didn’t read my previous comment that you quoted. I personally don’t think AA is going to furlough.

    I do find it interesting that APA wants these clauses in their contract though.
    APA has looked over the past and is attempting to shore up as many past holes as possible. This in particular has a political consideration. Asking for something though is not the same as getting it. Fact is, APA has little little leverage and timing might just end up a component that is at its worst for them. Clearly AA doesn’t have a lot of excess cash to pay pilots more and would be wise to conserve and be cautious and frugal given the view out the front windshield. Oh and they’ll need a lot of luck too. APA on the other hand needs a miracle.

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    It’s all about the long game boys. Also this is where seniority numbers are given to the regionals in exchange for flowbacks, Watch

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    Furlough Protection
    Easy way to staff a regional airline, and get FO’s with experience.

    Been there, done that. Be careful junior Captains, you will go back to FO seat with a pay cut and could end up in another base.

    I don’t see a Furlough, retirements alone will be enough to right size the airline, if need it. This will slow hiring down, just like they are delaying the deliveries of new planes. Only time will tell.

    “Envoy the show”
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 08-17-2018 at 11:44 PM.

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    APA pushes for this, you can guarantee scope change up to 120 configuration and 130k plus weight.
    Dont forget APA was bought by this management before.

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