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Thread: Spirit 2 on the making...

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    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    Spirit 2 in the making...


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    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 05-29-2018 at 05:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    About a 5-6% transfer of operations from former mainline (now LCC) to regional. This works against those who want to flow as it might give an immediate buzz to see and maybe even fly a "crown jewel" for a year or three, but over the long run should one flow to the LCC, it slows advancement and thus suppresses pay and job security. Good for those not flowing though, especially since those flowing in their union are making deals to flow faster that leaves them standing at the curb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    What's your point? Another pointless post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    About a 5-6% transfer of operations from former mainline (now LCC) to regional. This works against those who want to flow as it might give an immediate buzz to see and maybe even fly a "crown jewel" for a year or three, but over the long run should one flow to the LCC, it slows advancement and thus suppresses pay and job security. Good for those not flowing though, especially since those flowing in their union are making deals to flow faster that leaves them standing at the curb.
    "Flowing" to an LCC? You are kidding right? If you leave for an LCC when you have flow to AA then you really are f-ing stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    "Flowing" to an LCC? You are kidding right? If you leave for an LCC when you have flow to AA then you really are f-ing stupid.
    Not particularly observant, are you ?

    The LCC is the “new” American Airlines. As stated multiple times recently, AA is morphing into an LCC. For customers the product and for pilots, the compensation BOTH are closer to LCC’s then premier legacy airlines like Delta.

    “F-ing stupid” is bring unable or unwilling to recognize that reality in progress. Even worse, knowing that and pretending it’s not is beyond f-ing stupid, it’s galacticly moronic.

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    Flipper dove too deep and obviously suffers from brain damage brought on from the bends.
    Several industry articles state that AAG is slowly morphing into the USair/America West low cost model.
    More and more premium customers are voicing displeasure as well.
    Keep ignoring the facts Phin.

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    *​**​***​*​*​***​​*​**Using space the smart way Gone are the bulky seatbacks. We are installing a new Meridian seat made by Rockwell Interior Systems, which is thinner and lighter and configured to be more comfortable than the seats on those aircraft today. These seats are designed to make efficient use of the space available, so they give the feeling of extra legroom and feel wider. Using these seats, the new configuration utilizes a 30-inch seat pitch. That means we can add a few more seats to Main Cabin — 12 seats on the B737s, for a total of 172, and 3-9 seats on the A321s, for a total of 190. More seats mean more opportunities for customers to fly American, which means more revenue. This is important for American’s long-term success. Let’s talk about pitch for a second, which is a hot topic. Pitch is defined as the number of inches from the back of one seat to the back of the next seat. But as customers, we often think of legroom as the distance between where my seat stops and the next seat starts. By one measure, you’ll have a half-inch more space between where your posterior sits and the back of the seat in front of you on the new setup compared to today’s B737-800 seats.

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    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    “...which means more revenue.“

    100% Agreed, more revenew with less planes, less fuel, less pilots.
    DP knows what he is doing...Brilliant guy.

    That is 1,314 more seats on the 321’s
    And 3,500 seats on the 737’s. Parking 26 MD80’s is not going to make any change in capacity. Awesome move.

    BRIAVO👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
    Last edited by NoOtPilot; 05-30-2018 at 08:36 AM.

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    I love how they spin it for passengers. “More opportunities to fly”. it’s almost like they’re selling it to pilots with sjs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    “...which means more revenue.“

    100% Agreed, more revenew with less planes, less fuel, less pilots.
    DP knows what he is doing...Brilliant guy.

    That is 1,314 more seats on the 321’s
    And 3,500 seats on the 737’s. Parking 26 MD80’s is not going to make any change in capacity. Awesome move.

    BRIAVO������������
    You’ve only scraped the surface. Don’t forget to apply the same formula to the regional side in and of itself, especially when those pilots fly more seats either for free or in some cases for peanuts. Virtually all the extra seats are going where it matters - the shareholders, the executives and certain other management. Then also remember shifting 5% to the regionals from mainline LCC brings in more profit which also goes to the above. You can be sure there will be further transfer if it all possible. But the best part is;

    Many pilots will actually applaud this, thus validating their inferior contracts compared to their peers and especially the skimpy profit sharing which is a fraction of not only what their peers get, but of the executives as well. It is a winning formula when you have dumbed down so many of your pilots (both LCC and regional) to the point AAG has. Neither group will see any significant gains in the future as the “new” American (it doesn’t mean what many pilots assume it means) completes its transformation to a Walmart style LCC (absent whatever Parker wants to give).

    The only thing that can stop them is if their regional system (expanding at the riskiest time) becomes too dysfunctional due to lack of pilots as there aren’t many options as replacing it with more LCC flying (essentially going in reverse of what they have been doing) will take years with ordering new smaller LCC aircraft, ramping up logistics and support for them, training, introduction and expansion. If the regional bleeds too fast, market share is lost, profits go down (or losses start) and just like the article describes (there are more) in the other thread, AAG’s King Kong debt goes metastatic. Then AAG has big problems and history proves when the parent has big problems, its pilots have bigger problems. Should all this happen just prior to or concurrent with an outside geopolitical or airline industry event hurting all airlines, AA’s situation goes viral compared to other carriers. Many AA LCC and regional pilots will be in serious trouble because they will have spent far too much time not paying attention to the risks (or denying their existence) and not planning for the worst and of course, you guessed it....................applauding.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 05-30-2018 at 10:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkvisual View Post
    I love how they spin it for passengers. “More opportunities to fly”. it’s almost like they’re selling it to pilots with sjs.
    Almost ?

    If they spin things for their customers, imagine what they do for their team of epauletted pack mules ? Pilots don’t have to imagine though as they have some ready, willing and able to do that for them, even those that don’t even work for the operation they are spinning for. If you call that out though, you are “bitter”, “old”, “a hater”, “jealous”, “on skid row” or any number of other colorful attack labels used to bully you into silence. Thing is though, all that does is generate more pushback and demonstrates that if the hucksters weren’t here, those calling this stuff out would have far less to work with, so if “spin” is the goal, the hucksterian defense actually works against the spin.

    It’s just my opinion, but if they were smart, they’d put the hucksters out to pasture.

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    I am guessing a little over $60,000,000 a year in savings. Just Cockpit Crew alone.
    Lot’s of savings. Add flight attendants, fuel...etc.

    Just a guess.

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    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Flipper dove too deep and obviously suffers from brain damage brought on from the bends.
    Several industry articles state that AAG is slowly morphing into the USair/America West low cost model.
    More and more premium customers are voicing displeasure as well.
    Keep ignoring the facts Phin.
    How can they ignore facts....here are some of today’s headlines.

    American Airlines passenger arrested after allegedly spitting blood, fighting with other passengers.

    American Airlines' Tiny New Bathrooms Test Limits Of What U.S. Passengers Will Put Up With.

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    If they build it, they will come

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    If they build it, they will come
    Yup. AAG and Parker know (correctly) that the #1 motivator of people considering air travel is price. A close second is price and third is convenient scheduling. They have simply chosen to adapt to that market and product both domestically and Internationally. The overwhelming majority of people don't book away from RJ's (which also have tiny lavs). My comments about becoming an LCC in quality are simply acknowledging reality. A byproduct of that new reality (shifting from a premium product to an economy-based one) is that labor compensation has and will be based on that new morphing product. For Envoy pilots, that means understanding and accepting you aren't flowing to the old AA anymore (based on more of a Delta model), but one that will be closer to a Spirit model from a domestic standpoint. Unlike Spirit (for now), AA flies wide bodies Internationally, but that model too will shift more towards competitive International LCC models vs. premium carriers. Expect pay, scheduling and benefits to be more in line with those domestic and International LCC models and Parker will prove that to you once AA pilots section 6 negotiations get underway and word of AAG's position and arguments regarding contractual alterations is revealed.

    A lot of pilots, especially those junior will likely become very upset AAG does not believe their pilots should be compensated with the exception of pay rates like the premium carriers, but will use the other LCC's as their comparative models which is exactly a major reason they are moving in that direction, i.e., to make that a viable argument. Airlines size does not matter, but latching on to what they view as competitors does and you can bet your bottom dollar that IS where they will shift the "landscape" to in the future.

    As Parker has said and will say again, "The times have changed" and so must AA LCC pilots with them, both present and future. Envoy pilots ARE flowing to an LCC whether they accept that reality or not.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 05-30-2018 at 02:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    "Flowing" to an LCC? You are kidding right? If you leave for an LCC when you have flow to AA then you really are f-ing stupid.
    Nah, I think you’re the idiot. Keep chugging along at ****bag Envoy only to flow through to the “Spirit” of the legacies. AA is a joke compared to DAL and UAL, hate to break it to you. How are those work rules treating you? Still waiting on that email about trying to get a PTO day from swaps and drops? Keep at it while others move to profitable carriers that aren’t up to their eyeballs in debt. Upcoming LCC contracts with great work rules will net very close to legacy carriers.

    Beagle boy is 100% accurate in his posts about AA wanting to follow a LCC business model, in fact he’s been clear about that since the takeover.
    Last edited by Standby4life; 05-30-2018 at 10:00 PM.

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    Parker clearly stated that 6 months after the merge, aa will be low cost and if people want better they can go to delta or united.

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