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Thread: PUB event 5/24

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    PUB event 5/24


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    Question to the masses.
    How can this group be unified when every MEC Chairman for the last decade has done nothing more than capitulate to management’s demands?
    Sadly this pilot group hasn’t had(for a very long time)representation that actually did their feduciary duty in getting things back that were given up in concessionary times and at least showing some backbone in attempting to leaving this place bettter than they found it.
    Ask any lifers here how many times “the music stopped” suddenly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Question to the masses.
    How can this group be unified when every MEC Chairman for the last decade has done nothing more than capitulate to management’s demands?
    Sadly this pilot group hasn’t had(for a very long time)representation that actually did their feduciary duty in getting things back that were given up in concessionary times and at least showing some backbone in attempting to leaving this place bettter than they found it.
    Ask any lifers here how many times “the music stopped” suddenly.
    Instead of sticking your head in the sand, wouldn't a better course of action be to get involved?

    I think it would be great if the lifers ran the union.

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    Sadly, most who have been involved or tried to get involved in the past either became disenfranchised, or were shot down with their ideas, especially when they called for a bit of fortitude when it came to talks with the company.

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    Where is our pay raise

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Sadly, most who have been involved or tried to get involved in the past either became disenfranchised, or were shot down with their ideas, especially when they called for a bit of fortitude when it came to talks with the company.
    I think pragmatism sometimes outweighs catharsis, which is important to realize with this company. You definitely seem to have a chip on your shoulder, but pontificating about your displeasure with the course of the union on these forums is a fairly useless tool to make a change. Perhaps you should get back up on the horse instead of whining online about it (that goes for beagle as well, seeing as he as well seems to be perennially upset with the union). Sam is, afterall, flowing through soon, so a new chairman will be elected to lead the charge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by copycopy View Post
    I think pragmatism sometimes outweighs catharsis, which is important to realize with this company. You definitely seem to have a chip on your shoulder, but pontificating about your displeasure with the course of the union on these forums is a fairly useless tool to make a change. Perhaps you should get back up on the horse instead of whining online about it (that goes for beagle as well, seeing as he as well seems to be perennially upset with the union). Sam is, afterall, flowing through soon, so a new chairman will be elected to lead the charge.
    Considering I don’t work for Envoy, it would be difficult for me to “get back up on this horse”, as you say. Also considering that’s been well established for a long time now, your lack of awareness is surprising as I didn’t think there was anyone left on this forum who was oblivious to that. I stand corrected. But, that’s one of my points, that being so many have little or no awareness. If the next chairman plans to flow, you can be assured whatever charge he leads will lead nowhere except the past, thus for those praying for flow the best you can hope for is to serve your time and hope your advertised parole date to the new America West arrives as promised.

    That’s the flip side of having a flow-thru. As stated before, it inevitably leads to both PCP and IAM and those who are most likely to be afflicted with either are pragmatists as that is the the most effective rationalization for producing and terminally wallowing in ineffectiveness and mediocrity. BTW, if you think you belong to a “union”, then your organizational and representational standards are perilously low. What you belong to is nothing more then a myopic conga line led by absentee landlords, all simply finding an easier route until their own parole. Think of them as trustees as opposed to inmates. If you are in fact, one of the trustees in a group where it’s every one for themselves with virtually no chance of changing, your post makes perfect sense.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 05-21-2018 at 08:58 AM.

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    Right, I forget that there are people who no longer work at Envoy that continue to frequent these forums for some reason. The back and forth with Dacuj muddied the waters a bit as I didn’t know whether he was accurate or not with his points about you not working at Envoy, as I tend not to trust anything he says. I don’t follow every single post on here, I just see a lot of the garbage you two throw at each other - I guess this is just your vitriolic playground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Question to the masses.
    How can this group be unified when every MEC Chairman for the last decade has done nothing more than capitulate to management’s demands?
    Sadly this pilot group hasn’t had(for a very long time)representation that actually did their feduciary duty in getting things back that were given up in concessionary time......
    Sprague didn’t capitulate
    Last edited by Cujo665; 05-21-2018 at 12:00 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Sadly, most who have been involved or tried to get involved in the past either became disenfranchised, or were shot down with their ideas, especially when they called for a bit of fortitude when it came to talks with the company.
    Or if they were actually effective, the company just kept firing them until an arbitrator ruled their way....
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    Quote Originally Posted by copycopy View Post
    Right, I forget that there are people who no longer work at Envoy that continue to frequent these forums for some reason. The back and forth with Dacuj muddied the waters a bit as I didn’t know whether he was accurate or not with his points about you not working at Envoy, as I tend not to trust anything he says. I don’t follow every single post on here, I just see a lot of the garbage you two throw at each other - I guess this is just your vitriolic playground.
    Ah, that same old argument of not working for Envoy as if it’s relevant to any point made here. Considering that you, like those attempting to use this (and other) forums to spin various falsehoods as facts to dupe present and potentially future pilots into reinventing their own realities in fantasies that meet others needs make this same argument, perhaps you could use this opportunity to validate why this or any other forum is or should be ONLY for pilots who work at Envoy ? While you’re at it, include reasons why those who have worked for its predecessor or even haven’t worked here at all but might have interesting info shouldn’t post here either.

    Clearly (and I mean clearly) you, like those salesmen believe this to be an Envoy pilots only forum, so while you’re at that, explain why this tired old criticism is only leveled in one direction, yet I cannot find a previous post of yours aimed at Dacuj who also doesn’t work at Envoy. Personally, I’ve concluded you must be part of the “Association” structure and bristle at any criticism in that direction. I’d like nothing more for Envoy ALPA to restore some modicum of representational responsibility and capability, but until that time the painful reality must be acknowledged and that reality is proven without question by present circumstances and once again recent decisions that mimic the past with identical results.

    Good luck on your flow and my condolences on the period between now and then, unless of course, you are a trustee, then I suppose congratulations are in order.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 05-21-2018 at 10:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    Sprague didn’t capitulate
    Leadership is but one component of a successful union. Even with that, an active and involved membership is required that is interested in improving their present situation as opposed having been distracted by already looking at their next stop and placing that as the priority. Sadly, both components are in play here and the result is conversion to Associationism. The Association leadership just validated that with their latest gift to management that was about bailing the company out or at least trying in exchange for a slightly faster exit. It does nothing for those left behind serving life sentences and why should it ?

    That is NOT the priority with 90% of this group and thus the future here is set. Problem is, is what happens if parole is delayed significantly ? Answer : The chickens come home to roost as they should.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Leadership is but one component of a successful union. Even with that, an active and involved membership is required that is interested in improving their present situation as opposed having been distracted by already looking at their next stop and placing that as the priority. Sadly, both components are in play here and the result is conversion to Associationism. The Association leadership just validated that with their latest gift to management that was about bailing the company out or at least trying in exchange for a slightly faster exit. It does nothing for those left behind serving life sentences and why should it ?

    That is NOT the priority with 90% of this group and thus the future here is set. Problem is, is what happens if parole is delayed significantly ? Answer : The chickens come home to roost as they should.
    As stated before, the music has stopped before and it’ll happen again.
    “Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”.
    Hope most here are on to where they want to be before it transpires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    As stated before, the music has stopped before and it’ll happen again.
    “Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”.
    Hope most here are on to where they want to be before it transpires.
    Thus the race to accelerate rescue to maximize the number of survivors. Situation reminds me of the famous speech by Quint in the movie Jaws describing his experience during the sinking of the U.S.S. Indianapolis.............”you know that’s when I was most frightened........waiting for my turn. I’ll never put on another life jacket again.”. It’s as though as far as the Association leadership and the majority of the membership are concerned, this vessel has already sunk and there’s nothing to save.

    Again though, what if unforeseen circumstances force a longer period in the water then planned ? The good ship America West is circling around picking up survivors, but in this cyclical industry history has proven without fail, that is just ebb and flow (pun intended). The smart move (and ethical one too) is to consider your present circumstances a lifeboat that you may just have to tolerate for longer then planned should that good ship sail off for awhile before returning.

    Nahhhh.........when have hungry young pilots who have no interest in that past done such a thing ?

    After all, isn't it the hungry, young pilots philosophy steering Envoy right now insofar is the pilot groups priorities go ? Most especially, that's something management knows and can and is using against them.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 05-21-2018 at 11:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    Sprague didn’t capitulate
    “I’m not going to tell you how to vote, but I’m voting no.”

    That’s telling you how to vote. Also, Sprague was one of the dumbest volunteers to ever grace an MEC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirsnacksalot View Post
    Question to the masses.
    How can this group be unified when every MEC Chairman for the last decade has done nothing more than capitulate to management’s demands?
    Sadly this pilot group hasn’t had(for a very long time)representation that actually did their feduciary duty in getting things back that were given up in concessionary times and at least showing some backbone in attempting to leaving this place bettter than they found it.
    Ask any lifers here how many times “the music stopped” suddenly.
    Fiduciary.

    TeamTony did more for this group than Sprague, Pool, or even Mark.
    Last edited by Blizzue; 05-21-2018 at 05:41 PM. Reason: Stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzue View Post
    Fiduciary.

    TeamTony did more for this group than Sprague, Pool, or even Mark.
    Well, I thought you may have matured based on your recent posts, sadly I was mistaken. You are as completely clueless as ever. You have zero comprehension of how bad a position you guys left us in. Have you joined collaborative labor relations yet?

    Sprague was the best chairman in recent history. He actually responded to the will of the majority he represented. You guys always knew best and dictated, just like management. Then you guys misappropriated member money and got caught. Then when the pilots were given an alternative to voting for TT types.... you all got thrown out of office. In NY the vote was 90% to 10%..... so, keep yapping and representing your 10%.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    Well, I thought you may have matured based on your recent posts, sadly I was mistaken. You are as completely clueless as ever. You have zero comprehension of how bad a position you guys left us in. Have you joined collaborative labor relations yet?

    Sprague was the best chairman in recent history. He actually responded to the will of the majority he represented. You guys always knew best and dictated, just like management. Then you guys misappropriated member money and got caught. Then when the pilots were given an alternative to voting for TT types.... you all got thrown out of office. In NY the vote was 90% to 10%..... so, keep yapping and representing your 10%.
    Nobody ran for re-election. Nobody misappropriated anything. You are the worst volunteer in ALPA history.

    Sprague was never a leader. As an LEC rep he constantly advocated for polling the pilots rather than making decisions.

    I know we’ll never agree on these topics and that’s ok.

    Ps- why don’t you work at Eagle anymore?
    Last edited by Blizzue; 05-21-2018 at 06:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzue View Post
    Fiduciary.

    TeamTony did more for this group than Sprague, Pool, or even Mark.
    Do you mean Team Tony or Collaborative Labor Relations? I tend to get them confused...not sure why. Wasn’t that the same group that used our hard earned money to get trashed and gorge themselves (and their spouses) on ridiculously expensive meals while conducting “union business”? Also, didn’t some of them inappropriately use union resources (such as the van...but you wouldn’t know anything about that, right?).

    I love all you guys who go to mainline or retire, but can’t find anything better to do than come on the boards and crap all over the people still at Envoy, dredge up memories of the good ole’ Team Tony days, etc. Every time we move on you idiots come back trying to rips scabs off the old wounds and relive old battles. Give it a rest already. Aren’t there some people you can go piss over over on he UAL forum???

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    Quote Originally Posted by check_six View Post
    Do you mean Team Tony or Collaborative Labor Relations? I tend to get them confused...not sure why. Wasn’t that the same group that used our hard earned money to get trashed and gorge themselves (and their spouses) on ridiculously expensive meals while conducting “union business”? Also, didn’t some of them inappropriately use union resources (such as the van...but you wouldn’t know anything about that, right?).

    I love all you guys who go to mainline or retire, but can’t find anything better to do than come on the boards and crap all over the people still at Envoy, dredge up memories of the good ole’ Team Tony days, etc. Every time we move on you idiots come back trying to rips scabs off the old wounds and relive old battles. Give it a rest already. Aren’t there some people you can go piss over over on he UAL forum???
    I drove the van from the union office (in Euless) to training (in Euless) and gave rides to union pilots (the horror) which was being paid for by union pilots anyways.

    Meals were paid for in accordance with ALPA policy, quit ALPA I guess?

    I hang around because some people forget what really happened and pretend they are champions when they’re really scourges. Cujo being the worst of them all. Opponent of every good thing to ever happen to eagle, momentary union rep, immediately fired for being a ****ty employee. He’s a liar and the most bitter of any employee (can’t blame him, he lost a million dollar plus retirement because he’s an idiot).

    I have a vested interest in Eagle. Like an alma mater I want to want see succeed. Get over it.

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    How many Irish car bombs can you do in a night. Do you have any “snacks”

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