Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Can the Unchanged Pilot Groups...

  1. #1
    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1,651
    Level
    100
    Points: 58,521, Level: 100
    Overall activity: 99.7%
    Achievements:
    OverdriveSocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    DownloadsPosting Award
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 137/37
    Given: 0/0

    Ignore User

    Can the Unchanged Pilot Groups...


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Stop The MEC from moving forward with this LOA, that only benefits the company and the Protected Pilot Group?


    Just a simple question!

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    486
    Level
    63
    Points: 9,006, Level: 63
    Overall activity: 12.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 71/17
    Given: 71/4

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Hahaha these guys can barely look up simple stuff in the contract. You think they are gonna dig deep into ALPA bylaws? Most are on probation anyways. This deal benefits everybody. You suck at trolling... Now what we need is dacuj to show.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    198
    Level
    45
    Points: 5,054, Level: 45
    Overall activity: 32.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 9/0
    Given: 0/0

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    Stop The MEC from moving forward with this LOA, that only benefits the company and the Protected Pilot Group?


    Just a simple question!
    So who does the LGA hotels benefit? Who does the A12 passes benefit? Who does the CA pay starting day one once awarded benefit?

    Give it a rest, wipe those tears and support those who have sacrificed the most so far. This benefits all, by moving more to AA faster benefiting all by better line bidding, better OT pick up, faster flow to AA. I could go on and on

  4. #4
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    4,486
    Level
    97
    Points: 26,461, Level: 97
    Overall activity: 44.0%
    Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 570/36
    Given: 589/14

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    You are going to have to explain in detail the 2nd sentence in 2nd paragraph

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    198
    Level
    45
    Points: 5,054, Level: 45
    Overall activity: 32.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 9/0
    Given: 0/0

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    You are going to have to explain in detail the 2nd sentence in 2nd paragraph
    Simple: by 4 more PP flowing a month over what the company was sending is going to push more pilots out the door faster before this LOA. Therefore allowing those junior to move up the seniority list faster, getting them closer to their own flow date.

    Moving up the seniority list allows one to be able to bid for the better lines in the bid packet (higher time, more days off etc.) The more senior you are the better chance you have at picking up OT. Again with seniority come better QOL and benefits that a junior pilot can't enjoy. Was this the best LOA? No but it does benefit all on property in one sense or the other.

    4 extra FLOWS isn't earth shattering, but it is better then what we were getting or ever were going to get from the company. They were hell bent on 25 being the max and were never going to change that on their own.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    216
    Level
    40
    Points: 4,071, Level: 40
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 10/0
    Given: 0/0

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    The flow agreement actually helps everybody junior to the protected pilots more than the protected pilots....

  7. #7
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    4,486
    Level
    97
    Points: 26,461, Level: 97
    Overall activity: 44.0%
    Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 570/36
    Given: 589/14

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    I just don't see the qol getting better for ALL pilots, ttot, schedules or pay. That's what I thought you were saying.
    Yes 4 more per month to flow, yes bid captain start capt pay day after awarded position. Next year you must be or be a displaced captain to flow.
    I just don't see the qol getting better.
    But that falls into the saying, eye of the beholder.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,219
    Level
    64
    Points: 9,123, Level: 64
    Overall activity: 99.9%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 209/18
    Given: 66/145

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by copycopy View Post
    The flow agreement actually helps everybody junior to the protected pilots more than the protected pilots....
    You must remember that the whole point of coming to Envoy for 99% of pilots junior to the “lifers” is about leaving Envoy and ASAP. Thus, any contractual improvements will involve trying to accomplish that. Plan on making Envoy your career ?

    Expect to be repeatedly thrown under the bus for the benefit of present and future transients who couldn’t care less about Envoy in and of itself with the exception of what it can do for THEM. Your Association leadership is destined to be repetitively repopulated with rats who aren’t worried about crapping where they live because they don’t plan to stay long. Their is zero concern about making Envoy a viable career stop. It’s all about moving on.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    77
    Level
    41
    Points: 4,202, Level: 41
    Overall activity: 24.0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 7/5
    Given: 1/1

    Ignore User

    -1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    You must remember that the whole point of coming to Envoy for 99% of pilots junior to the ďlifersĒ is about leaving Envoy and ASAP. Thus, any contractual improvements will involve trying to accomplish that. Plan on making Envoy your career ?

    Expect to be repeatedly thrown under the bus for the benefit of present and future transients who couldnít care less about Envoy in and of itself with the exception of what it can do for THEM. Your Association leadership is destined to be repetitively repopulated with rats who arenít worried about crapping where they live because they donít plan to stay long. Their is zero concern about making Envoy a viable career stop. Itís all about moving on.
    Maybe a lifer should get up and start doing some union work. Queue the excuses...

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,219
    Level
    64
    Points: 9,123, Level: 64
    Overall activity: 99.9%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 209/18
    Given: 66/145

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr mojo View Post
    Maybe a lifer should get up and start doing some union work. Queue the excuses...
    A healthy “union” represents all segments of their membership without rationalizing “us and them” fiefdoms. Diseased “Associations” are infested with those who embrace a “sucks to be you” and “everyone for themselves” philosophy. One day you’ll be on the wrong side of that equation and my bet is you’ll likely squeal loudly should that happen. Sounds like you’ll never understand this concept, but karma is a ruthless teacher.

    If you’re junior at AA and things go south, then you’ll understand, likewise if you’re still at Envoy and then have to live where you give a “tails up” to all that crapping. No free rides, dude. Just as a pilot is cool with winners and losers within their group, so must they be ready to be the loser one day.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 05-13-2018 at 12:05 AM.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    40
    Level
    31
    Points: 2,661, Level: 31
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 4/0
    Given: 0/0

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    This deal provides MORE benefit to pilots after the protected pilots, than it does to any protected pilot. All the PPs gain is a flow up to 3 months faster. Pilots after them gain a flow 3 months faster, PLUS the huge gain of captain pay at award, A12 travel to LGA, hotels etc...

    Prove me wrong.

  12. #12
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    4,486
    Level
    97
    Points: 26,461, Level: 97
    Overall activity: 44.0%
    Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 570/36
    Given: 589/14

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Capt pay is only 3 to 6 months earlier than it would be, your a12 and commuter hotels are only for 3 months to new hires and new captains from date of loa signing, how is that good for ALL pilots.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    198
    Level
    45
    Points: 5,054, Level: 45
    Overall activity: 32.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 9/0
    Given: 0/0

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Basil View Post
    This deal provides MORE benefit to pilots after the protected pilots, than it does to any protected pilot. All the PPs gain is a flow up to 3 months faster. Pilots after them gain a flow 3 months faster, PLUS the huge gain of captain pay at award, A12 travel to LGA, hotels etc...

    Prove me wrong.
    Piss me off how these junior pilots are complaining about not getting more from this LOA, but they have been the ones getting everything so far, even me in this LOA.

    Protected pilots started out making $25 an hour, sat reserve 3+ years, had to pay to use D2s, started with no commuter hotels, had 3 bases closers, went through bankruptcy, waited 6+ years to upgrade, had to wait for CA pay, Most missed out on the majority of the FO retention bonuses, no big sign on bonuses.

    Now the PP group gets 4 more flows a month (which they should of been getting all along) and everything else benefits the junior pilots and all they can do is complain. Some might be smart to learn from those senior to them before they open their mouths. U grateful aholes.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    198
    Level
    45
    Points: 5,054, Level: 45
    Overall activity: 32.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 9/0
    Given: 0/0

    Ignore User

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Capt pay is only 3 to 6 months earlier than it would be, your a12 and commuter hotels are only for 3 months to new hires and new captains from date of loa signing, how is that good for ALL pilots.
    CA pay from day one is a pay raise.....might be the start of more to come down the road. A12 and hotels will help with recruiting which in turn will benefit all with less JMing, and less metering of the flow.

    The increase flow helped the PP group while the rest helped the junior pilots. The only group that didn't benefit are the lifers, yet we all know that will only come in the fashion of pay raises, which won't happen until all other resources are exhausted by the company.

    Like others have said...Was this the best LOA? No but it was better then saying no to the company. How has that worked for us in the past. How are our reserve rules? That is what I thought. We told them to pound sand about 4 months ago and they haven't negotiated reserve rules since nor pay increases like most of us wanted.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •