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Thread: New Flow Agreement?

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    Registered User Vne's Avatar
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    New Flow Agreement?


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    Any word?
    Last edited by Vne; 05-08-2018 at 11:53 AM. Reason: ETA: Should have posted in other thread.

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    29 per month for PPs.

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    Registered User Dacuj's Avatar
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    A new hire will upgrade immediately and flow to AA inside of 6 years. The payscale a new hire should expect upon starting at Envoy is below.

    payscale.jpg

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    Check your emails. Sam and co sent out a couple emails an hour ago.
    1. 29/month with an additional 9 in a time frame we havenít learned of yet, and another 9 who knows when.
    2. Ltfo is back but after 48 hour window and if you get displaced your NOT subject to reassignment.
    3. Ca pay as soon as your awarded not ioe.
    4. Standing vacancy bids (allows street captains)
    5. New York gets hotels and positive space for newly minted. Not sure about details.

    I did notice something in the small print. Ioe is now 50 hours? Makes you wonder why? Is it just for New York captains or across the board?
    Last edited by Pinkvisual; 05-08-2018 at 12:09 PM.

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    Can't tell you how exciting this is. Flow time is going to DROP like a 50 pound rock tossed off a cliff.

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    Isnít it ironic that dacuj posting here is exactly like his complaints about beagle. Dude. You donít work here anymore. Get a life.

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    4 extra a month that should have been going anyway? How underwhelmingly unimpressive. Flow still isn't 6 years.

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    Are they going to force RSV FOs to get assigned flying now? Or is that on a voluntary basis?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkvisual View Post
    Isn’t it ironic that dacuj posting here is exactly like his complaints about beagle. Dude. You don’t work here anymore. Get a life.
    Remember, he believes there are different rules for himself. He IS special...............at least to himself.

    As for these latest developments, they are entirely predictable. They are STILL designed not to reward the pilot group for their efforts, but SOLVE THE COMPANY'S PROBLEMS. Virtually all present Envoy pilots still continue to get a cactus up the kazoo, especially those not flowing. The extra flow of 44 pilots annually isn't Earth shattering, but is good news. The street captain carrot of solving a problem that won't be solved this way must be examined completely. If done that way, the street captain arriving at $113K/year will get a $34K haircut in year 2. IF he is displaced to F/O.....................whoooooo boy, what a pay cut that is. Now claiming LESS then a 5 year flow, but the claims in post #3 are phrased as certainties and once again, ANYONE who claims a certainty a half decade from now is only slightly less moronic then the one who believes it. Also, not every new-hire will see the pay scale this former Envoy pilot and one of AA's newest 737 F/O's claims and worst of all, the MEC has again demonstrated their willingness to repeat history by band-aiding problems that aren't the pilots fault or responsibility with most pilots having little to show for it, but a new round of promises and expectations based on future uncertainty. Nicely done Sam, that's quite a going away present, but not for many Envoy pilots.

    Hey Dacuj, GO AROUND !!!...........flaps 15, positive rate, gear up, set missed approach altitude !
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 05-08-2018 at 02:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Griff312 View Post
    4 extra a month that should have been going anyway? How underwhelmingly unimpressive. Flow still isn't 6 years.
    Is there still any lock-in for Captains now that the MEC has sold the F/O's down the river and to flow, they must upgrade (meaning many commuting on reserve) ? Also sounds like many F/O's who had hoped to stall their upgrades by bidding reserve so as not to be forced to RSV, LGA or both, can be plucked to fly to build their time faster. Again, why was all this agreed to ?

    Answer : To help the company out of THEIR jam.

    As I said, the future is the past, because the present is also the past.

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    Chris. You havenít even been voted on for APA yet... i would be silent and go away if I were you.

  12. #12
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    Looking at the email now. Once again our union solved the companyís self-induced problems for them. FOís last refuge for QoL has been taken away (sitting on RSV) and those on property get to flow when they were approximately supposed to before the company decided 25 was the most they had to send.
    This is huge for the company - thanks Sock Puppet!

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    ^This!^

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    Rather than do the right thing and swing for the fences by demanding the flow be adhered to as originally agreed, the union has elected to bundt with two out in the bottom of the ninth.
    Way to go team!
    Last edited by Sirsnacksalot; 05-08-2018 at 04:46 PM.

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    I guess Iím one of the few that thinks this isnít that bad of a deal. Anything that gets me out of here and to mainline faster without really giving up much at all is a win in my book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toliptihs View Post
    I guess I’m one of the few that thinks this isn’t that bad of a deal. Anything that gets me out of here and to mainline faster without really giving up much at all is a win in my book.
    You’re not a bad person, it’s just you’ve had your expectations successfully managed to the point of A. Seeing anything negotiated that doesn’t strip you of even more as good and B. Rationalizing that as long as it’s good for you, it’s good. These are two of the critical components of a group that no longer is relevant as a unified force and just being batted around like a cat does with its toys.

    Your Association leadership must shoulder this blame as surely you must notice now they have all but cut the pilots out of any initial inclusion in agreements that impact their lives and futures. Not only do they no longer include the pilot group regarding changes to your contract pre-negotiation via pilot input, but don’t even consult you regarding possible changes and in fact go even further by no notification at all until AFTER the fact. You the pilots, are no longer relevant to the company nor your Association leadership and why should you be ?

    The whole point of the future is geared to more mutual back-scratching between your MEC and management. Your MEC gives them gift after gift at your expense and they get assurances their carpet ride to AA is secure. It’s win-win alright, but for pilots that’s not good enough. In that case, it must be win-win-win. I’m afraid even though it looks OK and you think it might be good for you, you’ve been fleeced.

    Again.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 05-08-2018 at 10:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toliptihs View Post
    I guess Iím one of the few that thinks this isnít that bad of a deal. Anything that gets me out of here and to mainline faster without really giving up much at all is a win in my book.
    Idk I've been here seven years and I tend to agree with you.

  18. #18
    Registered User Vne's Avatar
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    The ennui here is strong and not the least bit surprising, all things considered.

    The company got:

    1. Street captains.
    2. Assigning senior RSV FO's flight time in order to swiftly force their upgrade.
    3. Standing vacancy to stick those forced upgrades somewhere faster than every quarter.
    4. No pay raises.
    5. No reserve rule changes.
    6. Staffing saved due to not having to send more to AA faster.

    The pilots got:
    1. Flow about where it should have been before the company shenanigans.
    2. Some hotels and plane tickets in LGA for 3 months or base transfer (whichever comes first).
    3. Captain pay upon award of captain status.
    4. No re-assignment if displaced from trips for FOs.

    The big takeaway?

    If you're the company:
    1. Create self-induced problem that affects the flow.
    2. Let the pilot union negotiate away a little here, a little there, maybe a little over there.
    3. Agree to do what you were supposed to do in the first place in return for what the union will give up.
    4. Wash, rinse, repeat until the contract is worth less than the electrons it takes to display it.
    5. Profit!

    If you're the pilots:
    1. BOHICA.

    Just my observation.

    ETA: I guess since the less than enthusiastic response to the last proposed reserve rule changes we can expect to not vote on anything again.
    Last edited by Vne; 05-09-2018 at 08:59 AM.
    Warlord of the crewroom.

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    This I agree! 1000%! We didnít even have a chance to vote on it.

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    Yes interesting, although the alpa manual allows the mec to pass anything without pilot vote,IT HAS BEEN STANDARD PRACTICE THE PILOTS WILL VOTE ON EVERYTHING AFFECTING THEIR CONTRACT. With that said, we now all know the mec will do anything to help management at the detriment of the pilots the mec is supposed to represent and protect.
    And I thought Tony and scum had left.

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