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Thread: Increased flow

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    From what Iíve been hearing itís good for all on property and great for the guys after the protected pilots. I fall into the latter. But Iím happy for them. They just may hit that 6 year flow number now. With all on property if what Iím hearing is true.

    Side note- according to sams voicemail to p2pís the company is not under staffed anymore. Back at the end of last year the companies projections were a lot higher than what they have become.

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    How is it good for ALL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkvisual View Post
    From what I’ve been hearing it’s good for all on property and great for the guys after the protected pilots. I fall into the latter. But I’m happy for them. They just may hit that 6 year flow number now. With all on property if what I’m hearing is true.

    Side note- according to sams voicemail to p2p’s the company is not under staffed anymore. Back at the end of last year the companies projections were a lot higher than what they have become.
    Good for all would be an industry leading contract and most importantly demonstrating the willingness to respect and adhere to that contract instead of abusing it and thus the pilots with impunity. Of course, I’m supposedly jealous of Envoy pilots and want to see them fail, because if Envoy fails, they fail and have to start over or so the hucksters claim, so take my opinions with a grain of salt.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 05-06-2018 at 10:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    Their's nothing NON contractual about the flow as it stands now. Maybe you should READ the contract.
    Then why has the union filed multiple grievances? If it's contractural, why is the company willing to settle instead of going to arbitration? If it's contractural, then why has RW and RN both admitted they're growing instead of fully honoring the contract flow language of 50%?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    Then why has the union filed multiple grievances? If it's contractural, why is the company willing to settle instead of going to arbitration? If it's contractural, then why has RW and RN both admitted they're growing instead of fully honoring the contract flow language of 50%?
    WTF are you talking about "admitting their growing". One, the contract is being honored. Two, growth is an awesome thing. More newly minted captains, a bigger seniority list and as you are about to see, more flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    WTF are you talking about "admitting their growing". One, the contract is being honored. Two, growth is an awesome thing. More newly minted captains, a bigger seniority list and as you are about to see, more flow.
    I have emails from both of them stating Envoy is growing instead of fully honoring the flow and some pilots may flow later than initially advertised due to the need to staff the flying. It's been given to the union as fact that the company knows it's not honoring flow correctly. We should get 50% of the new hires in class. We're not. That's a contract violation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    WTF are you talking about "admitting their growing". One, the contract is being honored. Two, growth is an awesome thing. More newly minted captains, a bigger seniority list and as you are about to see, more flow.
    And no, growth is not good for the pilots. Can't staff what we have now and we're growing. Just another reason to meter the flow. Pilots do NOT want growth. We want to get out of here. #flownotgrow

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    WTF are you talking about "admitting their growing". One, the contract is being honored. Two, growth is an awesome thing. More newly minted captains, a bigger seniority list and as you are about to see, more flow.
    They're. Not their.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    And no, growth is not good for the pilots. Can't staff what we have now and we're growing. Just another reason to meter the flow. Pilots do NOT want growth. We want to get out of here. #flownotgrow
    What he said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vne View Post
    What he said.
    Yeah, what he said. You aholes f**ing bitch and moan constantly about 8 year upgrades, no flow and it all gets fixed. Then you keep bitching and f**ing moaning about instant upgrades and flow working as per the contract. Find yourself another line of work. This evidently isnt your career field.

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    What you donít seem to get is that while people saw the flow numbers working out on paper and seeming realistic they were coming here for the flow. When they knew you were blowing numbers up their butt people started coming for the base or quick upgrade. When itís no longer an instant upgrade and flow looks bogus then there will be no reason why people will come here. Itís surely not going to be for pay. I wonder how youíll insult our intelligence then

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    Yeah, what he said. You aholes f**ing bitch and moan constantly about 8 year upgrades, no flow and it all gets fixed. Then you keep bitching and f**ing moaning about instant upgrades and flow working as per the contract. Find yourself another line of work. This evidently isnt your career field.
    Tsk, Tsk........such language. Is this what you’re taught by higher-ups when sent out on the forums to talk to your fellow employees to spin ? This and you characters claim I am the one who hates Envoy pilots ? Geez........anyway, you use the term “fixed” as if Envoy has turned over a new leaf. “8 year” upgrades weren’t fixed by the company, they became a byproduct of insufficient pilots, especially captain qualified pilots. No flow in that past and now a floodgate to AA ? That doesn’t sound accurate to me.

    The flow is working per the technical aspects of the contract, but not the spirit or intent and there’s a world of difference between the two. I argue any increase in flow is not a new found altruism taking hold, but geared to get and ensure Envoy can at least maintain size and more likely grow. It like other moves of recent are initiated for the company’s benefit, not the pilots. Speaking of hoped-for growth and a “bigger seniority list”, it will be interesting to watch Envoy not only maintain itself at present size over the coming years, but honor an increased flow while adding another 1000-1500 pilots over that period. At 2000 pilots with perhaps 1700 flowing and another 10-15% or more moving on to better legacies and LCC’s over the next 6 years (the flow claim/target) which is a conservative estimate looking over the legacy/LCC pilot opportunity landscape in the coming years, Envoy will need upwards of 3500 new-hires and a certain percentage captain qualified during that period and that’s just Envoy. To do that, Envoy will have to suck up most of the available regional new-hires during that time and I have difficulty seeing that. I hope they can, but I’m skeptical.

    Add it all up (past, present and future) and you can see why your hucksterian claims aren’t influencing people and winning friends and your hostility and verbal abuse doesn’t help. It’s just a suggestion, but you need to work on improving both your content and its delivery. This isn’t the parking lot at Hardrock Stadium and your audience is not a bunch of drunken tailgaters. They know what their reality is and live it every day.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 05-07-2018 at 08:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    How is it good for ALL
    Increase flow gets us out of this place quicker. The guys after pp benefit the most. From what I am hearing heíll now be 50 percent as well capped to sub 824 levels. Itís good news but itís still a contract violation based on the current contract. Itís written as 50 percent or 25 whichever is higher and they have been doing the opposite. Itís plain as day.

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    But then you advocate the continuation of poor schedule and poor pay as long as they only increase flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    But then you advocate the continuation of poor schedule and poor pay as long as they only increase flow.
    Thatís why Envoy pilots are in the situation theyíre in. Eagle used to have both a flow and at least some degree of ďcareer valueĒ. No more. Now, itís all about flow to AA AKA ďIAMĒ.

    Sad, but a predictable outcome. In reality, both sides lose.

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    And the mec is complicit in that they have made everything about flow and nothing else.
    Thought the mec was going public to air out the laundry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    And the mec is complicit in that they have made everything about flow and nothing else.
    Thought the mec was going public to air out the laundry.
    Clearly. They donít want to rock the boat and end up like two other reps. Cooperate and graduate or in this case lay low and flow. Thatís the future for Envoy pilot representation and thus Envoy pilot existence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    But then you advocate the continuation of poor schedule and poor pay as long as they only increase flow.
    Never once have I advocated for poor schedules and pay. I am in the middle group of captains that didnít receive any bonus. Those that know me know I am quite the complainer about pay and qol issues. Haha I am simply stating that the rumors I am hearing is that the company will start sending more via the flow. It, by itself, is a good thing.

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    sorry, that's how I interpreted it, apology. if the company flows more WITHOUT the pilots having to give up anything in any shape or form, then yes it is good. But there must be a catch to it because AAG is not going to allow envoy to increase to 50% or 50 per month because it will hurt the hiring at PDT and PSA. So either all increase or there must be something else working in the background and that is the problem, what.
    Sir, can I have another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Clearly. They don’t want to rock the boat and end up like two other reps. Cooperate and graduate or in this case lay low and flow. That’s the future for Envoy pilot representation and thus Envoy pilot existence.
    #laylowandflow

    I love it!

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