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Thread: Increased flow

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    Increased flow


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    Announcement soon.

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    Yup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    Yup.
    Soooooo contractual flow now?

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    In exchange: LTFO Part 2: Electric Boogaloo.

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    but still poor qol, poor schedules, poor pay and poor benefits, thank sam as he leaves.
    Sir, can I have another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    Soooooo contractual flow now?
    Their's nothing NON contractual about the flow as it stands now. Maybe you should READ the contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xpanterica View Post
    Announcement soon.
    Good news, if true. But, long-term Envoy NEEDS more pilots over the next 6-8 years then will be available and while an increase now from say for example, 25-30 now and when the flow is slated to decrease to 15 going to say 25, that will only exacerbate their problems. Obviously an announcement like this is simply the next step on the desperation path in the hope of side-stepping the future reality. The flow really isn’t working now that well as an attraction scheme and increasing it won’t IMO cause a stampede to Envoy from other carriers pilots with seniority at those carriers. Additionally, as others have said, the present QWL situation at Envoy is poor.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 05-06-2018 at 05:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xpanterica View Post
    In exchange: LTFO Part 2: Electric Boogaloo.
    Definitely possible. Envoy ALPA has in the past rolled over for scraps more then once and even the pilot group has done that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    Their's nothing NON contractual about the flow as it stands now. Maybe you should READ the contract.
    Thereís*

    God damnit your killing me Smallís. That is twice now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkvisual View Post
    There’s*

    God damnit your killing me Small’s. That is twice now.
    LOL !

    A guy who can’t write criticizing others for an inability to read. You can’t make this stuff up !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Definitely possible. Envoy ALPA has in the past rolled over for scraps more then once and even the pilot group has done that.
    I am fine with the union doing this. We will have to see the details before final judgment us made. What all did they give up is the question?

    Increase flow is good, this is just a stepping stone for most here and a quicker path to.a seniority number at AA is only a positive. I would rather our union and the company cone to an agreement on getting our low time FOs hours so they upgrade and help alleviate our CA problem instead of doing whatever they want to do like the last LTFO fiasco.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz5422 View Post
    I am fine with the union doing this. We will have to see the details before final judgment us made. What all did they give up is the question?

    Increase flow is good, this is just a stepping stone for most here and a quicker path to.a seniority number at AA is only a positive. I would rather our union and the company cone to an agreement on getting our low time FOs hours so they upgrade and help alleviate our CA problem instead of doing whatever they want to do like the last LTFO fiasco.
    Yes, I understand. Each generation is clueless about the past and so is destined to repeat the same mistakes over and over. Your desire of solving the company’s self-induced........actually LATEST self-induced problem before it matures has always been the downfall of this (and other) pilot groups. Solving “your” Captain problem will only lead to the exact same place you are now. It always has and always will.

    Problem this time is that despite your desire to solve your abusers problems (Stockholm Syndrome) is that it almost certainly WON’T solve them this time, because you didn’t cause it, they did. Worse for them, is they became too intoxicated over too long a period of complete dominance and control and thought they’d never go too far. Expect them to continue to grasp at new straws that sound fabulous, but won’t alter what is now unalterable. In the interim, good luck as I’m sure you can come up with some more sacrifices to help out those who laugh at your contract. After all, that’s your job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Yes, I understand. Each generation is clueless about the past and so is destined to repeat the same mistakes over and over. Your desire of solving the company’s self-induced........actually LATEST self-induced problem before it matures has always been the downfall of this (and other) pilot groups. Solving “your” Captain problem will only lead to the exact same place you are now. It always has and always will.

    Problem this time is that despite your desire to solve your abusers problems (Stockholm Syndrome) is that it almost certainly WON’T solve them this time, because you didn’t cause it, they did. Worse for them, is they became too intoxicated over too long a period of complete dominance and control and thought they’d never go too far. Expect them to continue to grasp at new straws that sound fabulous, but won’t alter what is now unalterable. In the interim, good luck as I’m sure you can come up with some more sacrifices to help out those who laugh at your contract. After all, that’s your job.
    Seems like you are a little jealous your flow didn't get accelerated and you had to spend the majority of your career here instead of saying you fly for a MAJOR airline.

    There is nothing wrong working together to find a common solution to to help those junior build the hours they need to upgrade. Yes it helps the company with qualified CAs to upgrade but it also helps those that want to flow to get out of here quicker and for those that want to get the hours to upgrade the chance to build the hours quickly and upgrade.

    Yes there are those here that want to upgrade quickly, improve their resume and move on. It is a win win in my book.

    Stop being jealous..........

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    He can’t help it. You hit the nail on the head. Ask, why would a 65 year old force retired old man be posting manifestos here? You hit it. Jealousy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz5422 View Post
    Seems like you are a little jealous your flow didn't get accelerated and you had to spend the majority of your career here instead of saying you fly for a MAJOR airline.

    There is nothing wrong working together to find a common solution to to help those junior build the hours they need to upgrade. Yes it helps the company with qualified CAs to upgrade but it also helps those that want to flow to get out of here quicker and for those that want to get the hours to upgrade the chance to build the hours quickly and upgrade.

    Yes there are those here that want to upgrade quickly, improve their resume and move on. It is a win win in my book.

    Stop being jealous..........
    Ah, the dead giveaway as another stooge aíla Dacuj/DolphinsFan. You were doing just fine portraying yourself as a neutral sleeper and then you give yourself away so quickly.

    Too bad. Had you played it more deftly, youíd have been much more effective. Iíd love to see a true win/win for Envoy pilots, but a win/thought you won as in the past wonít cut it anymore. As time goes on youíll see, not that it will correct your error.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    He canít help it. You hit the nail on the head. Ask, why would a 65 year old force retired old man be posting manifestos here? You hit it. Jealousy.
    Ah, the old recruiters ďtag teamĒ is back. Didnít work then either........

    Of course, itís possible to tag yourself, yes ?

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    Not the pilots or unions job to find solutions to flow, hiring or having qualified pilots to upgrade, THAT IS THE COMPANIES RESPONSIBILITY.
    Union should sit on sidelines with arms folded and lips sewn shut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Not the pilots or unions job to find solutions to flow, hiring or having qualified pilots to upgrade, THAT IS THE COMPANIES RESPONSIBILITY.
    Union should sit on sidelines with arms folded and lips sewn shut.
    Agreed. But, letís face history. Both the Association and all too frequently the pilots do just that and where are they now ? Itís an honest and I acknowledge painful realization.

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    The Unionís job is to represent ALL of its constituents. That means those who hope to flow as well as the lifers (gummers as some have come to call them). The bottom line here is that if the music were to suddenly stop, wouldnít you want some better things in place for what could become a longer stay than you had planned for?

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    Gunners, referred to by the diaper babies

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