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Thread: Spirit Airlines pilots' new contract could be bad news for

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    Quote Originally Posted by Layman View Post
    If you really want to go there, find someone you know who works there. They’re getting improvements in pay etc, but they’re also going to PBS. Lots of those guys bank off of conflicts. PBS will eliminate that. PBS works fine, and most of the horror stories, aren’t true. You just need to take the time to learn it. With that, PBS also works better if you have more pairings to work with. Spirit as a whole, isn’t really that big. So each of their bases are only going to have so much to work with. Probably not the end of the world either. Also take into consideration that they do lots of Red eye flights. If you’ve never had the pleasure of doing those, they’re tough on your body. You can say all day long well I’m a night person, etc. once again, until you’ve done it, you won’t know. If that’s all you do, probably not so bad, but as a reserve person initially, you’ll bounce all over the place from day, night all night etc. they’re even worse if they’re embedded in a trip.

    So take into account everything before going oh, look at what they got etc. Total package, because you’ll be looking to make a jump without making another jump if you can. I do know people who work there, and they like it, but the common response is we need to get paid more.
    Exactly. Just a few reasons right there that you would not want to go to Spirit in addition to:

    1. Essentially the Mesa of the LCCs.
    2. Horrible toxic brand. Do you really want to tell your family or neighbors you work for Spirit?
    3. Horrid pay and working conditions.


    Seriously, do I need to go on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Layman View Post
    If you really want to go there, find someone you know who works there. They’re getting improvements in pay etc, but they’re also going to PBS. Lots of those guys bank off of conflicts. PBS will eliminate that. PBS works fine, and most of the horror stories, aren’t true. You just need to take the time to learn it. With that, PBS also works better if you have more pairings to work with. Spirit as a whole, isn’t really that big. So each of their bases are only going to have so much to work with. Probably not the end of the world either. Also take into consideration that they do lots of Red eye flights. If you’ve never had the pleasure of doing those, they’re tough on your body. You can say all day long well I’m a night person, etc. once again, until you’ve done it, you won’t know. If that’s all you do, probably not so bad, but as a reserve person initially, you’ll bounce all over the place from day, night all night etc. they’re even worse if they’re embedded in a trip.

    So take into account everything before going oh, look at what they got etc. Total package, because you’ll be looking to make a jump without making another jump if you can. I do know people who work there, and they like it, but the common response is we need to get paid more.
    Good idea to go to the source, as always. The last thing a pilot should do is base a move solely off of what someone says on a pilot forum, especially those with clear and obvious agenda's to enslave pilots at their present carrier for the benefit of others, who make blanket baseless and unexplained claims like another carrier has "horrid pay and working conditions" or has a penchant for being childish. Comparing both AA and Spirit narrow body flying in the future, both will have PBS and both have a similar percentage of "all-nighter flying". PBS quality is largely a function of the management that controls the pairings and Spirit's pairings aren't likely to be much worse then AA's and perhaps better. Doesn't sound like most Envoy pilots are in a rush to PBS and one could argue there's a specific reason for that. Go to the source for several points-of-view and then decide if Spirit might be a better bet then AA. IMO, one component of that decision MUST be the factoring in of waiting 9 years for AA, the fact many thousands of pilots will get to AA sooner then you during that period and the risks of assuming nothing negative will occur before your number comes up further delaying your move to AA.

    Be a thorough and informed consumer to make the right choice for YOU.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 02-01-2018 at 04:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Exactly. Just a few reasons right there that you would not want to go to Spirit in addition to:

    1. Essentially the Mesa of the LCCs.
    2. Horrible toxic brand. Do you really want to tell your family or neighbors you work for Spirit?
    3. Horrid pay and working conditions.


    Seriously, do I need to go on?
    AA has PBS.
    AA does lots of red eyes.

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    Who is the envoy of lcc airlines?

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    I left Eagle for Spirit in February 2014. I check in here from time to time to see how things are going. Gotta say, the recruiting schtick seems really heavy here now.

    I was hired in Oct 2007 and left simply because I had had enough of the abuse and was literally ready to take any other job at the time that wasn't a regional. Personally, I feel I got lucky and got in with Spirit. Allegiant even gave me the TBNT along with Jetblue. I upgraded here right at 3 years and in 2017 with 4 months on FO pay, I made 135k. I didn't have to work all that hard for it either. In the current contract, soft time is plenty. I'm sure that with PBS in the future, I will begin to work more.

    Everything here from training to bidding, crew scheduling, equipment, hotels, gate agents are all far superior to anything Eagle has to offer. This is my personal opinion only. Life is really easy and I have serious time off. Again, I know that will change somewhat in the future but I don't expect draconian work rules as I perceive Eagle to have.

    Originally, my plan was to get in a couple of years here and maybe 1500 of Airbus time and then begin to apply elsewhere. My plan has changed and I now plan to finish out my career with Spirit unless they are bought, merged or go bankrupt. I would give the first two a much higher likelihood than the last as Spirit has been profitable every year since 2007 and has about 1 billion in cash. Spirit is growing. 112 aircraft today with 161 planned at the end of 2021 unless another aircraft order is placed.

    QOL as I've said is quite good. Schedules are decent. Being DFW based, I don't get too many red eyes. I haven't done one since September. I have a friend over at AA and we compare schedules, He gets far more red eyes than I do based in LAX. I will say that if you are based in Vegas, almost every trip will begin with a red eye to the east coast.

    For a while I had the apps out pretty hard but within the past two years I just let them lapse. For me personally, if AA, SW, UA or DL were to call and just flat offer a class date today with no interview, I don't think I would take it. Being in the top third of a growing list has a lot to do with that along with not wanting to get another type, go on probation and start over.

    Every one has different priorities. But don't let that shiny AA plane give you tunnel vision. Lots of opportunities out there right now and you don't have to enslave yourself to Envoy for a long period to get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfwmia View Post
    I left Eagle for Spirit in February 2014. I check in here from time to time to see how things are going. Gotta say, the recruiting schtick seems really heavy here now.

    I was hired in Oct 2007 and left simply because I had had enough of the abuse and was literally ready to take any other job at the time that wasn't a regional. Personally, I feel I got lucky and got in with Spirit. Allegiant even gave me the TBNT along with Jetblue. I upgraded here right at 3 years and in 2017 with 4 months on FO pay, I made 135k. I didn't have to work all that hard for it either. In the current contract, soft time is plenty. I'm sure that with PBS in the future, I will begin to work more.

    Everything here from training to bidding, crew scheduling, equipment, hotels, gate agents are all far superior to anything Eagle has to offer. This is my personal opinion only. Life is really easy and I have serious time off. Again, I know that will change somewhat in the future but I don't expect draconian work rules as I perceive Eagle to have.

    Originally, my plan was to get in a couple of years here and maybe 1500 of Airbus time and then begin to apply elsewhere. My plan has changed and I now plan to finish out my career with Spirit unless they are bought, merged or go bankrupt. I would give the first two a much higher likelihood than the last as Spirit has been profitable every year since 2007 and has about 1 billion in cash. Spirit is growing. 112 aircraft today with 161 planned at the end of 2021 unless another aircraft order is placed.

    QOL as I've said is quite good. Schedules are decent. Being DFW based, I don't get too many red eyes. I haven't done one since September. I have a friend over at AA and we compare schedules, He gets far more red eyes than I do based in LAX. I will say that if you are based in Vegas, almost every trip will begin with a red eye to the east coast.

    For a while I had the apps out pretty hard but within the past two years I just let them lapse. For me personally, if AA, SW, UA or DL were to call and just flat offer a class date today with no interview, I don't think I would take it. Being in the top third of a growing list has a lot to do with that along with not wanting to get another type, go on probation and start over.

    Every one has different priorities. But don't let that shiny AA plane give you tunnel vision. Lots of opportunities out there right now and you don't have to enslave yourself to Envoy for a long period to get it.
    You must have a bad resume or skeletons in your closet. To barely get hired at Spirit speaks for itself. Boneheaded move of the century leaving your AA job for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfwmia View Post
    I left Eagle for Spirit in February 2014. I check in here from time to time to see how things are going. Gotta say, the recruiting schtick seems really heavy here now.

    I was hired in Oct 2007 and left simply because I had had enough of the abuse and was literally ready to take any other job at the time that wasn't a regional. Personally, I feel I got lucky and got in with Spirit. Allegiant even gave me the TBNT along with Jetblue. I upgraded here right at 3 years and in 2017 with 4 months on FO pay, I made 135k. I didn't have to work all that hard for it either. In the current contract, soft time is plenty. I'm sure that with PBS in the future, I will begin to work more.

    Everything here from training to bidding, crew scheduling, equipment, hotels, gate agents are all far superior to anything Eagle has to offer. This is my personal opinion only. Life is really easy and I have serious time off. Again, I know that will change somewhat in the future but I don't expect draconian work rules as I perceive Eagle to have.

    Originally, my plan was to get in a couple of years here and maybe 1500 of Airbus time and then begin to apply elsewhere. My plan has changed and I now plan to finish out my career with Spirit unless they are bought, merged or go bankrupt. I would give the first two a much higher likelihood than the last as Spirit has been profitable every year since 2007 and has about 1 billion in cash. Spirit is growing. 112 aircraft today with 161 planned at the end of 2021 unless another aircraft order is placed.

    QOL as I've said is quite good. Schedules are decent. Being DFW based, I don't get too many red eyes. I haven't done one since September. I have a friend over at AA and we compare schedules, He gets far more red eyes than I do based in LAX. I will say that if you are based in Vegas, almost every trip will begin with a red eye to the east coast.

    For a while I had the apps out pretty hard but within the past two years I just let them lapse. For me personally, if AA, SW, UA or DL were to call and just flat offer a class date today with no interview, I don't think I would take it. Being in the top third of a growing list has a lot to do with that along with not wanting to get another type, go on probation and start over.

    Every one has different priorities. But don't let that shiny AA plane give you tunnel vision. Lots of opportunities out there right now and you don't have to enslave yourself to Envoy for a long period to get it.
    Congrats on finding somewhere you are happy to be at. As an Airbus captain with that growth, you should have pretty good job security, even with a merger or downturn in the industry. If the TA goes through, you should also be in a decent situation should you lose your medical with a disability program superior to AA’s. I have little doubt Spirits scheduling will be no worse then AA’s who is already scheduling like an LCC, so I don’t think your QWL will get much worse, even with PBS. As they say, “a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush” and Envoy pilots waiting for nearly a decade to flow to AA with fingers crossed most definitely have not just two in the Bush, but an entire flock. I have to say though, I’m not a fan of that “bumblebee” paint job, but if that’s my worst criticism, it’s nothing. Of course, AA’s “Pepsi Can” scheme with the Eagle peeking around the shower curtain logo isn’t the greatest either.

    Good luck and dig-in if it works for you. Remember, it’s not a career anymore, but a job which is what the industry executives happily turned it into and now that bird is on its way back home to roost.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 02-02-2018 at 09:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Exactly. Just a few reasons right there that you would not want to go to Spirit in addition to:

    1. Essentially the Mesa of the LCCs.
    2. Horrible toxic brand. Do you really want to tell your family or neighbors you work for Spirit?
    3. Horrid pay and working conditions.


    Seriously, do I need to go on?
    Please do go on...
    1) Not really sure what is implied by the analogy of Mesa and Spirit here but it is Apples to Oranges as far as I can tell. Are you refering to maintenance? Training? QoL?

    2) I would not mind telling my neighbors, friends, and family that I fly an A320 for Spirit. I am kind of hoping they call before my 9th year with Envoy waiting for flow. An A320 type goes a lot further than an E140 type. Also, I have had friends who jumped from a Regional, to Spirit, and then to a Major. This was quite successful for them and it did not take them 9 years to do it either.

    3) If the first two weren't confusing, this last one really didn't make sense to me. Pay? Sorry, Horrid Pay...

    Envoy 2nd-yr FO: $40
    Spirit 2nd-yr FO: $72

    Envoy 4th-yr CA: $71
    Spirit 4th-yr CA: $131

    So the pay at Spirit is not quite double across the board. Trust me, sitting reserve for the pay at Spirit would be much more tolerable than dealing with our reserve rules at our current pay rates.

    Dacuj, tell me again why I should wait 9 years instead of 3 to start making a six-figure salary to do the same job??? (And might I add... at a domicile that I actually want and can commute to as opposed to one the company is forcing me to...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitch4Airspeed View Post
    Please do go on...
    1) Not really sure what is implied by the analogy of Mesa and Spirit here but it is Apples to Oranges as far as I can tell. Are you refering to maintenance? Training? QoL?

    2) I would not mind telling my neighbors, friends, and family that I fly an A320 for Spirit. I am kind of hoping they call before my 9th year with Envoy waiting for flow. An A320 type goes a lot further than an E140 type. Also, I have had friends who jumped from a Regional, to Spirit, and then to a Major. This was quite successful for them and it did not take them 9 years to do it either.

    3) If the first two weren't confusing, this last one really didn't make sense to me. Pay? Sorry, Horrid Pay...

    Envoy 2nd-yr FO: $40
    Spirit 2nd-yr FO: $72

    Envoy 4th-yr CA: $71
    Spirit 4th-yr CA: $131

    So the pay at Spirit is not quite double across the board. Trust me, sitting reserve for the pay at Spirit would be much more tolerable than dealing with our reserve rules at our current pay rates.

    Dacuj, tell me again why I should wait 9 years instead of 3 to start making a six-figure salary to do the same job??? (And might I add... at a domicile that I actually want and can commute to as opposed to one the company is forcing me to...)
    Dacuj is the story of Dumb and Dumber in the flesh.

    If Spirit pilots green light their TA, that’s $200/hour, not $131. Also, if a Spirit pilot loses their medical, he/she is covered better then AA, but at Envoy the same pilot gets bupkus. Even if a pilot goes to Spirit as a steppingstone, that has major value. 9 years from now, an Envoy new-hire is slated to just be STARTING at AA at first year F/O pay and IMO, there is significant risk in holding your breath for that long hoping all goes well so your payoff comes on time...........just to start at the bottom of the AA list though. If things don’t go as planned over the next decade...........well ?

    Point being, to say a move to Spirit for any and every Envoy pilot is dumb...........is, well.............much dumber.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Dacuj is the story of Dumb and Dumber in the flesh.

    If Spirit pilots green light their TA, that’s $200/hour, not $131. Also, if a Spirit pilot loses their medical, he/she is covered better then AA, but at Envoy the same pilot gets bupkus. Even if a pilot goes to Spirit as a steppingstone, that has major value. 9 years from now, an Envoy new-hire is slated to just be STARTING at AA at first year F/O pay and IMO, there is significant risk in holding your breath for that long hoping all goes well so your payoff comes on time...........just to start at the bottom of the AA list though. If things don’t go as planned over the next decade...........well ?

    Point being, to say a move to Spirit for any and every Envoy pilot is dumb...........is, well.............much dumber.
    Bingo!

    The game changes a lot in the favor of going to an LCC like Spirit if their TA passes.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Also, if a Spirit pilot loses their medical, he/she is covered better then AA, but at Envoy the same pilot gets bupkus.
    What does AA do if you lose your medical? I didn't know this was a thing. I assumed you were on your own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
    What does AA do if you lose your medical? I didn't know this was a thing. I assumed you were on your own.
    I think it's 60% until you turn 65

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    Quote Originally Posted by No Tuna In Cockpit View Post
    I think it's 60% until you turn 65
    For most reasons, yes. For things like mental such as PTSD or depression, if you’re grounded you’re kicked to the curb after 2 years and have to start your life over again. For everything else, after 2 years you have to apply for SS disability and give that to them, so they can save some of that 60%. Also, any other money you receive as income is treated the same way, as it essentially goes to them so they pay less out of pocket on that too. It’s a reimbursement and the AA plan pales in comparison to how Delta takes care of their pilots and now Sprirt’s is better. Again though, if you are unlucky enough to lose your medical at Envoy waiting for AA, I guess you head over to Home Depot to fill out an application if you are able bodied. At the old Eagle, some referred to it as the “6-point disability plan”; the six points being the 5 digits of one hand waving goodbye at you, simultaneously with the raised middle finger of the other hand.

    With the new TA, Spirit will now exceed both AA and its WO regionals in disability and that says a lot about Spirit vs. AA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Exactly. Just a few reasons right there that you would not want to go to Spirit in addition to:

    1. Essentially the Mesa of the LCCs.
    2. Horrible toxic brand. Do you really want to tell your family or neighbors you work for Spirit?
    3. Horrid pay and working conditions.


    Seriously, do I need to go on?
    Everything you just stated has everything associated with that of a person who suffers from an inferiority complex. You seriously have dinners where you routinely discuss your workplace? I bet you tell your neighbors you're an AA pilot too. You're a joke. Most FO's at Spirit make more money than you while you wait around to flow, and even when you flow, that same Spirit pilot will potentially be making the same amount of money as you would as a narrow body FO at AA. You clearly are a person of "status" and I hope you're career ends up being as glamorous as you think it will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standby4life View Post
    Everything you just stated has everything associated with that of a person who suffers from an inferiority complex. You seriously have dinners where you routinely discuss your workplace? I bet you tell your neighbors you're an AA pilot too. You're a joke. Most FO's at Spirit make more money than you while you wait around to flow, and even when you flow, that same Spirit pilot will potentially be making the same amount of money as you would as a narrow body FO at AA. You clearly are a person of "status" and I hope you're career ends up being as glamorous as you think it will.
    You can say whatever you like but the fact of the matter is, AA is FAR superior to Spirit. Spirit is nothing more than a gnat on AA's arm.

    That said, I was in IAH this week on business. As we taxiied in, I could see 2 175s. One Compass (coming our way soon) and one Republic beside 2 AA 319s. You couldn't tell the difference. You have to be proud of what you fly and the 175 is assuredly the crown jewel. The new AA paint looks so sharp and you had to be a pilot to be able to tell the difference between the Bus and 175.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    You can say whatever you like but the fact of the matter is, AA is FAR superior to Spirit. Spirit is nothing more than a gnat on AA's arm.

    That said, I was in IAH this week on business. As we taxiied in, I could see 2 175s. One Compass (coming our way soon) and one Republic beside 2 AA 319s. You couldn't tell the difference. You have to be proud of what you fly and the 175 is assuredly the crown jewel. The new AA paint looks so sharp and you had to be a pilot to be able to tell the difference between the Bus and 175.
    Envoy’s self-appointed pimp hard at work on a weekend. Too funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    You can say whatever you like but the fact of the matter is, AA is FAR superior to Spirit. Spirit is nothing more than a gnat on AA's arm.

    That said, I was in IAH this week on business. As we taxiied in, I could see 2 175s. One Compass (coming our way soon) and one Republic beside 2 AA 319s. You couldn't tell the difference. You have to be proud of what you fly and the 175 is assuredly the crown jewel. The new AA paint looks so sharp and you had to be a pilot to be able to tell the difference between the Bus and 175.
    well one you hold the stick in your hand and the other you spread your legs to control. the new paint sucks, not one e175 has come back and future hopes are just that, just as the hope of one day somewhere one will flow to aa who was hired last week at envoy, if they stay here that long. To see how low AA has gotten that we are discussing which is better, AA or Spirit. just pointing out some facts.
    Sir, can I have another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    You can say whatever you like but the fact of the matter is, AA is FAR superior to Spirit. Spirit is nothing more than a gnat on AA's arm.

    That said, I was in IAH this week on business. As we taxiied in, I could see 2 175s. One Compass (coming our way soon) and one Republic beside 2 AA 319s. You couldn't tell the difference. You have to be proud of what you fly and the 175 is assuredly the crown jewel. The new AA paint looks so sharp and you had to be a pilot to be able to tell the difference between the Bus and 175.
    well one you hold the stick in your hand and the other you spread your legs to control. the new paint sucks, not one e175 has come back and future hopes are just that, just as the hope of one day somewhere one will flow to aa who was hired last week at envoy, if they stay here that long. To see how low AA has gotten that we are discussing which is better, AA or Spirit. just pointing out some facts.
    Sir, can I have another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    That said, I was in IAH this week on business. As we taxiied in, I could see 2 175s. One Compass (coming our way soon) and one Republic beside 2 AA 319s. You couldn't tell the difference. You have to be proud of what you fly and the 175 is assuredly the crown jewel. The new AA paint looks so sharp and you had to be a pilot to be able to tell the difference between the Bus and 175.
    So, you’re proud because you fly essentially the same equipment for around half of the total compensation? High five, Mr. AA pilot!

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1 ROT8 View Post
    So, you’re proud because you fly essentially the same
    equipment for around half of the total compensation? High five, Mr. AA pilot!
    Wait, it gets better as the weekend progresses along with his alcohol consumption.

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