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Thread: Endeavor envoy callsign issue

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    Endeavor envoy callsign issue


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    Simple fix: switch us back to eagle flight.

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    Iíve been telling this to every CPO Iíve passed through for months. I think this will eventually become a real safety issue and the easy fix is to give us our old call sign back.
    Please guys, fill out those pipelines! Letís get proactive about it before somebody gets bit by this!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkvisual View Post
    Simple fix: switch us back to eagle flight.
    Well now that will make too much F..n sense right. Do not despair, in a recent email from one of the big Whigs,somewhere in there it says the FAA is conducting a study for future resolution in the matter, I’m guessing that’s why they want our pipelines on every screwed job out there with callsigns,that study should’ve been done before they approved the flagship to endeavor name, but what do I know I’m just a dumb tax payer.
    Now for those of you that have the pleasure of flying in and around YUL andYYZ, u have to add in to this silliness the Encore call sign, which makes for a pleasant and fun operation laden with miss calls and erroneous read backs all the way to the gate in some cases.


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    .25 hr per pipeline and I'll get busy. Hey, I'll drop ten of them a day. Otherwise, that's precisely why there's LOSA. It's their job. Should be plenty of data already if LOSA guys fill their reports properly for which they actually do get paid.

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    So dumb. ďUmm guys, we know its a problem. Now tell us itís a problem officially.Ē

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    What is the issue.......the 2 words don’t sound very similar

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRaven View Post
    What is the issue.......the 2 words don’t sound very similar
    On radar screens ENY and EDV apparently look similar enough that controllers are constantly issuing instructions using the other guys callsign.

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    ATC canít get it right is the issue.

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    As much as I would love the change back to Eagle Flight, I donít think EGF on the scope helps much.

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    File an ASAP. Things move much quicker if the FAA agrees with your position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkvisual View Post
    Simple fix: switch us back to eagle flight.
    This aint 1997 anymore!

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    Got called endeavor twice yesterday. Lost the email. How does one fill out the pipeline regarding this? Specifically which selections on the drop down?
    And no itís not 1997, the name was changed after we got slapped with the crap contract we currently are operating under after tons of whipsaw. Worst years at eaglvoy. Some say the name change was only to slap us in the face. Much like the cactus call sign America West made east use. There was also a time when people used to put egfflt# in the Tcas but that got changed in our fm1 after some idiots were putting voteno and other non professional terms. Someone looked them up on flight aware and posted them on social media. Thatís when the company added in the wording for putting the flight numbers in the fm1. Funny history lesson for you younger guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkvisual View Post
    Got called endeavor twice yesterday. Lost the email. How does one fill out the pipeline regarding this? Specifically which selections on the drop down?
    And no itís not 1997, the name was changed after we got slapped with the crap contract we currently are operating under after tons of whipsaw. Worst years at eaglvoy. Some say the name change was only to slap us in the face. Much like the cactus call sign America West made east use. There was also a time when people used to put egfflt# in the Tcas but that got changed in our fm1 after some idiots were putting voteno and other non professional terms. Someone looked them up on flight aware and posted them on social media. Thatís when the company added in the wording for putting the flight numbers in the fm1. Funny history lesson for you younger guys.
    Check your HI16 on the 26th.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl View Post
    File an ASAP. Things move much quicker if the FAA agrees with your position.
    No! Don't file ASAP! ASAP is for when you screw up. Did you screw up? Been hearing people filing ASAPs left and right for no reason at all. Even for a go-around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pilotmunk View Post
    No! Don't file ASAP! ASAP is for when you screw up. Did you screw up? Been hearing people filing ASAPs left and right for no reason at all. Even for a go-around.
    Guys chill out, you can file an ASAP for ď AnythingĒ affecting the safety of flight. Donít believe me? You are free to call Fsdo, your airline POI or assistant, look it up be informed read your FM1 and Aom 1 and stop listening to gossip when it comes to flying the line.

    ASAPS are not only for when you screw up, some body cuts you off in ORD taxiway because they are on a different frequency, guess what, u could ASAP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RIGHTWINGMAN View Post
    Guys chill out, you can file an ASAP for ď AnythingĒ affecting the safety of flight. Donít believe me? You are free to call Fsdo, your airline POI or assistant, look it up be informed read your FM1 and Aom 1 and stop listening to gossip when it comes to flying the line.

    ASAPS are not only for when you screw up, some body cuts you off in ORD taxiway because they are on a different frequency, guess what, u could ASAP.
    If you look at the AC120-66B (ASAP guidelines) you'll see that the program deals with inadvertent violations and potential non-compliance only. For instance, on page 7, they talk about criteria for acceptance (i.e. of ASAP reports to be reviewed by the Event Review Committee). Conditions are: reported in timely manner of becoming aware of possible non-compliance; the alleged regulatory violation must be inadvertent; and no criminal activity. So the very point of using the system is to report your own potential non-compliance or inadvertent violation. And NOT the ATC's failure to read their screens properly. It just doesn't fit the format. For safety concerns and operational suggestions we have the pipeline system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pilotmunk View Post
    If you look at the AC120-66B (ASAP guidelines) you'll see that the program deals with inadvertent violations and potential non-compliance only. For instance, on page 7, they talk about criteria for acceptance (i.e. of ASAP reports to be reviewed by the Event Review Committee). Conditions are: reported in timely manner of becoming aware of possible non-compliance; the alleged regulatory violation must be inadvertent; and no criminal activity. So the very point of using the system is to report your own potential non-compliance or inadvertent violation. And NOT the ATC's failure to read their screens properly. It just doesn't fit the format. For safety concerns and operational suggestions we have the pipeline system.
    Dude did u even read the circular you are talking about I went ahead and read it.

    This is a copy paste form it , I mean I know some of you guys are riddle with ADD but it’s not hard to understand the English language.

    ¬ďPURPOSE. This Advisory Circular (AC) provides guidance for establishing an air transportation Aviation Safety Action Program (ASAP). The objective of the ASAP is to encourage air carrier and repair station employees to voluntarily report safety information that may be critical to identifying potential precursors to accidents.¬Ē

    There you have it, FAA allows you to use ASAP to report any potential issue that can affect the safety of flight, then yes you are right it goes into all the bull crap definitions and conditions of acceptance. However, no where does it says that is only to be used if you violate the CFR’s, there are certain conditions in that regard for the committee to accept it, i.e wanton disregard or negligence, it is mostly used that way to protect employees

    Again if you still doubt me call or better yet email your airline POI or his office, call your FSDO , easy read the FAA website, if you think there is something really critical safety related , say a procedure for push back or taxing in LGA, you didn’t violate or break any rules, you just want the FAA, the company, ALPA to be aware of this issue that could potentially affect, or perhaps affected the safety of flight, while you operated in LGA.

    ATC is not the only one messing up the clearances, it’s both pilots and atc, endeavor 3536, envoy 3536, encore 3533 this is happening and they sound alike even if the controller is saying the correct airline code, it’s a fact dude.

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    I understand your point. Yes, the way the scope of the program is defined in the quote you presented certaintly offers the wide range of uses. But what happens when someone files any ASAP? It goes to the ERC, which determines first and foremost whether the inclusion conditions that I quoted are satisfied or not (no malintent, timeliness, etc). And that's according to the AC, I'm not just making it up. Then they file it with the FAA (and NASA) and it goes to the database. It is the job of the ERC to determine whether the report is eligible. So if we're talking about eligibility, this means that only certain types of reports are suitable in the first place. Do you see how the purpose is different from what the pipeline program does? There is no requirement for eligibility with pipeline and there is one with the ASAP program. Naturally, you can fill out an ASAP for anything, except the ERC people will look at it and say, why didn't he just fill the pipeline for that? I mean, whatevs. Do it if you want to, no-one is stopping you
    Last edited by pilotmunk; 01-29-2018 at 04:46 PM.

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    And by the way, the company has a safety hotline if the matter is urgent

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    Quote Originally Posted by pilotmunk View Post
    And by the way, the company has a safety hotline if the matter is urgent
    Yes I know the company has a safety hotline, and only the company will know about the issue, It is the ERC job to review the safety related issue, it is up to them to blow it off or to say yes this is a matter of concern we should look in to this, and it does not necessarily needs a violation on your part. Thatís why is comprised of several parties, so everyone is held to account if something happens in the future and u or someone else got blown off. Again call or email your POI he will say the same thing, if youíre writing an ASAP for a safety related issue of course,it better be something that has to be fixed donít just write an ASAP cause your coffee is cold.

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