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Thread: AA Last 2017 Class Drop

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    AA Last 2017 Class Drop


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    Class 17-20
    Last class for 2017
    42 Pilots (16 Mil Pilots)
    LGA/737/FO/D (22)
    LAX/737/FO/D (5)
    PHL/190/FO/I (11)
    DFW/80/FO/D (4)


    2018
    Class dates
    Jan09, 25 Feb 8,22 Mar 8,22

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    What was the total number of Envoy flows for 2017 ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    What was the total number of Envoy flows for 2017 ?
    The troll is back. Trying to get some “low” numbers to spin that the flow is dead and not working. We managed to run off one guy who didn’t work here trolling this place, 360. My 2018 goal is to get you banned here for your obsessive behavior and seething hatred for Envoy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    The troll is back. Trying to get some “low” numbers to spin that the flow is dead and not working. We managed to run off one guy who didn’t work here trolling this place, 360. My 2018 goal is to get you banned here for your obsessive behavior and seething hatred for Envoy.
    Uhhh. Yeah.
    How many where Envoy flows again?

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    Is LAX possible or does it go pretty senior?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    The troll is back. Trying to get some “low” numbers to spin that the flow is dead and not working. We managed to run off one guy who didn’t work here trolling this place, 360. My 2018 goal is to get you banned here for your obsessive behavior and seething hatred for Envoy.
    How could I get a “low” number ? The only valid number is the ACTUAL number and who could argue with the truth being anything other then what it is ?

    Answer : You, of course.

    Clearly, this simple, factual question has frightened you so much, you’ve resorted to threats. It’s good others finally see you for what you really are about with the false veneer of unbiased truth you claim to be stripped away, that being someone who when confronted with a reality that threatens his agenda (that being to be the one “spinning” falsehoods), he attacks JUST like I asserted in a previous post within the last few days. ALL other members should note one other admission in your threat above, that being the use of “WE”, when describing a collusion to “run off” those who question your gross misrepresentations, multiple, repetitive and rampant violations of forum rules (now to include overt threats) and anti-social conduct now also including the admission you are part of a group orchestrating a concerted and coordinated effort of suppression on this and almost certainly other forums.

    Whether you admit it or not, you’ve just destroyed whatever chance you’ll ever have at rehabilitating your credibility and it is you that should be permanently banned from this forum. The entire membership combined falls short of your despicable and aggregious conduct here and that is undeniable. I can only assume once again this latest blatant violation of forum rules is fueled by excessive alcohol consumption, but that is no excuse.

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    Does anyone know how many are in the pool? They've only selected 15 or so over the past three months. I would think they'd have to get some more selected pretty soon to get to 25 for January if that's the plan.

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    Roughly 237 in 2017. +/- not many.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
    Does anyone know how many are in the pool? They've only selected 15 or so over the past three months. I would think they'd have to get some more selected pretty soon to get to 25 for January if that's the plan.
    I have no reason to believe they won’t release 25 for January, but one has to consider how they are staffed for Captains. Since flows for the foreseeable future will be Captains and they are obviously so hard up for Captains they have to force upgrades on new-hires, it does raise concern how they can consistently release a sub-segment of pilots when they are especially challenged in that same sub-segment.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 11-30-2017 at 09:50 PM.

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    Registered User No Tuna In Cockpit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hapless Browny View Post
    Is LAX possible or does it go pretty senior?
    LAX has been available in several of the last class drops. I would imagine if you don't get it from the outset, you should be able to bid it pretty quickly, as long as you get the 73 or 320.

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    Thanks, hoping for LAX.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    The troll is back. Trying to get some “low” numbers to spin that the flow is dead and not working. We managed to run off one guy who didn’t work here trolling this place, 360. My 2018 goal is to get you banned here for your obsessive behavior and seething hatred for Envoy.
    Troll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Lucky View Post
    Class 17-20
    Last class for 2017
    42 Pilots (16 Mil Pilots)
    LGA/737/FO/D (22)
    LAX/737/FO/D (5)
    PHL/190/FO/D (11)
    DFW/80/FO/D (4)


    2018
    Class dates
    Jan11, 25 Feb 8,22 Mar 8,22
    3 were Envoy. 6 Piedmont. 8 PSA.

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    "I have no reason to believe they won’t release 25 for January, but one has to consider how they are staffed for Captains. Since flows for the foreseeable future will be Captains and they are obviously so hard up for Captains they have to force upgrades on new-hires, it does raise concern how they can consistently release a sub-segment of pilots when they are especially challenged in that same sub-segment."

    Believe it or not, they've gotten caught up on staffing...at least for now. In December, the only status that had any critical coverage was DFW 145, and it was only around Christmas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schmuck View Post
    "I have no reason to believe they won’t release 25 for January, but one has to consider how they are staffed for Captains. Since flows for the foreseeable future will be Captains and they are obviously so hard up for Captains they have to force upgrades on new-hires, it does raise concern how they can consistently release a sub-segment of pilots when they are especially challenged in that same sub-segment."

    Believe it or not, they've gotten caught up on staffing...at least for now. In December, the only status that had any critical coverage was DFW 145, and it was only around Christmas.
    Good news then. There should be no excuse not to release 25 Captains/month in 2018.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Good news then. There should be no excuse not to release 25 Captains/month in 2018.
    I have to say that with this statement, the company and dacuj have seemingly succeeded in sufficiently lowering expectations. I would say lowered them to the point where not only is the rank and file's mindset changed to 25 per month is max, that it's something to cheer about when 25 make it through. November is the classic example. 84 new hires and 25 Envoy. Totally against the agreement but there it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PREVEMB View Post
    I have to say that with this statement, the company and dacuj have seemingly succeeded in sufficiently lowering expectations. I would say lowered them to the point where not only is the rank and file's mindset changed to 25 per month is max, that it's something to cheer about when 25 make it through. November is the classic example. 84 new hires and 25 Envoy. Totally against the agreement but there it is.
    I get what you're saying about managing expectations as that indeed is what I'll now call the DMG (Dacuj Manipulation Group) is here for. Remember, "he" is really a "we" by his own admission. But, in reality the flow in all previous methodologies went at minimum possible rate in virtually all instances and that like virtually all other contractual provisions that have some variability, have also been diluted to produce maximum value towards the company, which usually means minimum value for the pilots. So, the present flow situation is really no deviation from past practice and painfully, I think the only pilots whose expectations of more are born of their own denial of the reality of who they are dealing with. The company hasn't managed pilots expectations regarding flow as it is running as it has since its inception 20 years ago, pilots themselves have..........well, at least some.

    The interesting part in the future as I repeat periodically is what will occur when they can no longer even release the minimum contractual number ? When that occurs is a variable, but at some point given the staffing realities obvious by the present actions like forced upgrade and reported unusually high training times and failure rates and poaching which is finite shelf life in opportunity combined with Envoy's zest for actually expanding, at some point Envoy will either have to choose from returning to contraction (and to some degree its cousin stagnation) or impeding attrition, with the flow about the only option in that area. Neither I nor anyone can say for sure how that will shake out, but all Envoy pilots IMO should consider this for if not, once again it is they that are managing their own expectations via denial as opposed to the company which is and would in this situation be acting no differently then in the past.

    Just my .02..........
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 12-01-2017 at 09:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    The troll is back. Trying to get some “low” numbers to spin that the flow is dead and not working. We managed to run off one guy who didn’t work here trolling this place, 360. My 2018 goal is to get you banned here for your obsessive behavior and seething hatred for Envoy.
    I have tried to be positive about the flow and what’s happening at envoy. However, the flow was abysmal in 2017. Envoy continued to not flow the correct amount. 50% not to be below 25. Does not mean flow 25 or less. Most of us have seen our flow pushed back 6 months or more. Thus costing us big money at the end of our career.

    So unless envoy is going to correct for the errors of not flowing enough and then flow the right amount from here on forward. Please don’t get on here and preach about flow. It’s broken and envoy is to blame.

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    3 envoy flows in the last class of 2017.. 2 envoy street. Roughly 6 PDT and 8 PSA flows. Mostly military. One Republic, one Expressjet. Super 80 and 190 went Senior. LGA 737 Junior. Oldest 52 I think. I know youngest 24. Source.... I'm in the class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turboprop View Post
    I have tried to be positive about the flow and what’s happening at envoy. However, the flow was abysmal in 2017. Envoy continued to not flow the correct amount. 50% not to be below 25. Does not mean flow 25 or less. Most of us have seen our flow pushed back 6 months or more. Thus costing us big money at the end of our career.

    So unless envoy is going to correct for the errors of not flowing enough and then flow the right amount from here on forward. Please don’t get on here and preach about flow. It’s broken and envoy is to blame.
    It's truly the fault of the industry destroying this once profession into more of a burdensome job. Pilots used to be a dime a dozen, but now it's simply not worth the time and effort to most. I'll bet many of those filing into Envoy's training center as new-hires are pilots that previously wouldn't have made the cut and many others are likely to dabble for a few years until they get burnt out, this mostly encompassing older pilots who will use the jet time to perhaps go corporate or check a personal box and move on to less stress. They, like you come aboard with what I call "blind optimism" (heck, I did too back in the day), but most become jaded, alienated and distrustful at some point and it seems that period is fairly short now for most. Again, considering the evaporating supply of pilots, this will only stress carriers like Envoy (they are not alone) further and that will have no option but to stress present pilots further. Dacuj says I'm just blowing smoke about this, but for those of you who have been here for awhile, ask yourselves one honest question;

    Are things getting better, staying the same or getting worse ?

    THAT is all you need to determine reality. Not me, not dacuj or anyone else. By doing this, at least you'll be grounded as to what to expect in the future (based on consistent past and present) and that's one good trait to have to better manage your career, IMO.

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