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Thread: Don't wait for the flow...

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    Don't wait for the flow...


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    As most people are aware, the flow is happening much slower than the optimistic projections. And all indications point to an even slower flow than is popularly expected. I encourage everyone everyone to continue to update your applications at the majors; all the majors have indicated plans to hire many pilots through the next year. Supposedly, updating regularly (every week) is supposed to help.

    Obviously, I haven't yet figured out the magic formula either.

    But merely politely waiting in line for the flow is certain to cause a lot of disappointment in destroyed career expectations.

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    Registered User Dacuj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bravobridge View Post
    As most people are aware, the flow is happening much slower than the optimistic projections. And all indications point to an even slower flow than is popularly expected. I encourage everyone everyone to continue to update your applications at the majors; all the majors have indicated plans to hire many pilots through the next year. Supposedly, updating regularly (every week) is supposed to help.

    Obviously, I haven't yet figured out the magic formula either.

    But merely politely waiting in line for the flow is certain to cause a lot of disappointment in destroyed career expectations.
    There are no "indications" that the flow is slowing down. It's continuing just as exactly as it's laid out in the contract. So, get over yourself.

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    a sphincter says what

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    Definition of slow: Moving or operating, or designed to do so, only at a low speed; not quick or fast.

    Zero flows in October is slow. 25/month is slower than 30/month. A metered 25/month is slower than 50 percent. Sorry, these are simply facts. Even if the contract is actually being followed (perpetual metering below 50 percent violates the intent of the agreement), it is a mathematical fact that fewer pilots are flowing each month than was typical during the 824 flow.

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    Whoa, you used facts and common sense. A sphincter canít compute those things.

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    I had been planning on flowing this month. Now, it will be after the first of the year. There is one, and will probably be another grievance filled over the fact that the company is claiming the 25/mo is the target, and NOT 50% as the agreement clearly states. AA has said they plan on hiring 900 pilots next year. 12 months times 25 is 300, not 450 like we SHOULD get. New hire classes are currently full, so what justification does the company have to meter? The flow is NOT proceding as the contract says, sorry dacuj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravobridge View Post
    As most people are aware, the flow is happening much slower than the optimistic projections. And all indications point to an even slower flow than is popularly expected. I encourage everyone everyone to continue to update your applications at the majors; all the majors have indicated plans to hire many pilots through the next year. Supposedly, updating regularly (every week) is supposed to help.

    Obviously, I haven't yet figured out the magic formula either.

    But merely politely waiting in line for the flow is certain to cause a lot of disappointment in destroyed career expectations.
    IIRC, the flow is going exactly as ALPA said it would in the past - at minimum rate possible. This is the M.O. of the flow of all previous methodologies regardless of how many AA hires. No one here should be angry as this was a known quantity all along. The only ones angry would be those who expected something different or believed something different from any source that sold it more positively, but in reality less accurately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    There are no "indications" that the flow is slowing down. It's continuing just as exactly as it's laid out in the contract. So, get over yourself.
    80ish new hires at AA in November, only 20 flows going. Got an answer for that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    There are no "indications" that the flow is slowing down. It's continuing just as exactly as it's laid out in the contract. So, get over yourself.
    It certainly is (well presently it's not, but what's a temporary hiccup between friends, eh ?).

    IMO, it would wise for all Envoy pilots to ground themselves in REALITY as I have said all along as that way, there will be less angst in the future, when the inevitable realities are confronted and equally inevitable setbacks occur. As long as an acceptable number of both Captain and F/O qualified new-hires can be brought-in, the flow goes at minimum rate. When that can no longer be sustained, there are only two options for a stand alone Envoy, contract again or reduce the flow somehow. Again IMO, the only question of that inevitable situation is "when ?".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    It certainly is (well presently it's not, but what's a temporary hiccup between friends, eh ?).

    IMO, it would wise for all Envoy pilots to ground themselves in REALITY as I have said all along as that way, there will be less angst in the future, when the inevitable realities are confronted and equally inevitable setbacks occur. As long as an acceptable number of both Captain and F/O qualified new-hires can be brought-in, the flow goes at minimum rate. When that can no longer be sustained, there are only two options for a stand alone Envoy, contract again or reduce the flow somehow. Again IMO, the only question of that inevitable situation is "when ?".
    Nope, it's not a question of "when." If you haven't followed, Envoy is hiring record numbers of applicants. They're all flocking here. Gee, I wonder why? So much so in fact that some applicants had to be put on hold while the training bubble is catching up. The flow keeps going as is contractual. Period.

    Otherwise, cool story brah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Nope, it's not a question of "when." If you haven't followed, Envoy is hiring record numbers of applicants. They're all flocking here. Gee, I wonder why? So much so in fact that some applicants had to be put on hold while the training bubble is catching up. The flow keeps going as is contractual. Period.

    Otherwise, cool story brah.
    Thanks for the thumb's up, Homey.

    Obviously you prefer Fiction (where the future is limited only by one's imagination) vs. Documentaries (situations founded by quantifiable facts), but that is of no surprise considering your loyalty to Fantasy. My audience isn't you though, but those still psychologically salvageable, but I do want to thank you for being such a useful tool in reaching that audience. Without you, the perfect prop, my efforts would be all the more difficult.

    Keep up the good work !

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    Dacuj, is the company sending 50% flows of the new hire class as required by our contract?
    Sir, can I have another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Dacuj, is the company sending 50% flows of the new hire class as required by our contract?
    He is just a puppet trained only to repeat What He has been taught.....he can't answer that question expect saying "the flow keeps going as is contractual."

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz5422 View Post
    He is just a puppet trained only to repeat What He has been taught.....he can't answer that question expect saying "the flow keeps going as is contractual."
    Which is a stupefying response considering most Envoy pilots know fully well what "contractual" means there. If his goal is to inspire confidence, he's (as usual) whizzing into the wind.

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    Best reason to not wait for the flow is the better option over at Love Field.

    I left AE for SWA in July 2016 but would have been flowing to AA just slightly ahead of TrinityDawn (Jan 2018ish). So Iím 18 months ahead at least.

    Also, I live in Dallas. It took me 4 months to get based back here. That trend continues.

    Also I get paid 98.9 hours (115 Trips For Pay) per month without picking up OT.

    That all equates to 15 days off each month minimum and approx $140,000 pay in second year.

    Also I am able to get weekends off by bidding RSV. Reserve rules could be better, but there is a real nice premium pay nugget that comes into play on RSV. When we are sent on a 2 day trip during a 4 day RSV block, if we get extended into the remaining days, we get paid premium for the legs that fell on Day 2 that arrived to the overnight later than We were originally scheduled to be finished.

    For example, last week, I was on a 2 day RSV block and subsequently got assigned a 2 day trip that was scheduled to finish at 8:05am. During my overnight, I got reassigned to start a little later and fly 3 legs. Because I was now going to finish after 8:05am, I was paid premium for all legs flown that day. I ended up getting 9.9 TFP (8:30 hrs) pay that day. The total 2 day RSV block ended up paying 17.6 TFP (15:10 hrs). At 2nd year pay plus per diem the two days added up to $1840.

    Itís a good gig, yíall should try it.
    Last edited by RobertRoss; 11-01-2017 at 11:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertRoss View Post
    Best reason to not wait for the flow is the better option over at Love Field.

    I left AE for SWA in July 2016 but would have been flowing to AA just slightly ahead of TrinityDawn (Jan 2018ish). So Iím 18 months ahead at least.

    Also, I live in Dallas. It took me 4 months to get based back here. That trend continues.

    Also I get paid 98.9 hours (115 Trips For Pay) per month without picking up OT.

    That all equates to 15 days off each month minimum and approx $140,000 pay in second year.

    Also I am able to get weekends off by bidding RSV. Reserve rules could be better, but there is a real nice premium pay nugget that comes into play on RSV. When we are sent on a 2 day trip during a 4 day RSV block, if we get extended into the remaining days, we get paid premium for the legs that fell on Day 2 that arrived to the overnight later than We were originally scheduled to be finished.

    For example, last week, I was on a 2 day RSV block and subsequently got assigned a 2 day trip that was scheduled to finish at 8:05am. During my overnight, I got reassigned to start a little later and fly 3 legs. Because I was now going to finish after 8:05am, I was paid premium for all legs flown that day. I ended up getting 9.9 TFP (8:30 hrs) pay that day. The total 2 day RSV block ended up paying 17.6 TFP (15:10 hrs). At 2nd year pay plus per diem the two days added up to $1840.

    Itís a good gig, yíall should try it.
    Are you guys doing Hawaii from the West coast ?

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    Damn bro sounds good but the idea of flying 5 legs per day for the rest of your career sounds fatiguing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Are you guys doing Hawaii from the West coast ?
    From LA initially. Other CA cities to follow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by E175ERAUDriver View Post
    Damn bro sounds good but the idea of flying 5 legs per day for the rest of your career sounds fatiguing.
    Iíll bet many of their trips donít do that anymore. Much of SWAís Domestic footprint isnít all that different from AAís and theyíre seriously ramping up their Caribbean flying. Besides, AA is littered with crap trips that start early and finish late, more backside flying and red-eyeís. Total compensation is better for narrow body too, last I figured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by E175ERAUDriver View Post
    Damn bro sounds good but the idea of flying 5 legs per day for the rest of your career sounds fatiguing.
    Legs are a lot longer these days. Our structure takes me from DAL, and I rarely return to DAL before the last leg of the trip. The result is a typical day being 2-3 legs and a long day being 4-5. To date, I donít recall ever doing a 5 leg day, but Iíve had my fair share of 4 leg days. Itís a small price to pay for 3 On 4 Off schedules.

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