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Thread: Reserve Rules LOA Reached

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    I’ll never understand the wait until panic mode to act at AAG. It’s not easy on anyone involved.

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    With this edv ta which has better reserve rules than this Loa, if you were not a no vote you should reconsider. Settling for less is no bargaining position. Vote it down and start over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    With this edv ta which has better reserve rules than this Loa, if you were not a no vote you should reconsider. Settling for less is no bargaining position. Vote it down and start over.
    Agreed!

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    And if you’re a FO on the fence, ask some of the CAs how the LTFO worked out last time, that should make all them a NO.

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    I love hearing the pilots who think that helping the company with this LOA is going to help us down the road. They are a special kind of naive/stupid. This LOA was a doomed even before the Endeavor TA came out. The MEC and negotiators should be embarrassed at this pathetic pile of crap they are trying to sell, especially after the teleconferences. I'm a huge HELL NO. I'm once again, disappointed in our union/association.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcflying53 View Post
    I love hearing the pilots who think that helping the company with this LOA is going to help us down the road. They are a special kind of naive/stupid. This LOA was a doomed even before the Endeavor TA came out. The MEC and negotiators should be embarrassed at this pathetic pile of crap they are trying to sell, especially after the teleconferences. I'm a huge HELL NO. I'm once again, disappointed in our union/association.
    What do you expect? The company has already shown how they deal with folks who won't play ball. It's a sad reality of the current state of things.

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    How do they even send this to a vote? ALPA is a joke!

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    Was laughing when it came out. Ask the mec why are they pushing this loa, all should vote no.

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    Heard we're back to the drawing board after the world has changed again. schmuck?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xpanterica View Post
    Heard we're back to the drawing board after the world has changed again. schmuck?
    If so, I don't get why they're still continuing the road shows and the vote is still scheduled. This thing is dead in the water anyway - endeavor torpedoed it pretty convincingly imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersdawg View Post
    If so, I don't get why they're still continuing the road shows and the vote is still scheduled. This thing is dead in the water anyway - endeavor torpedoed it pretty convincingly imo.
    Wouldn’t it be wonderful if your Association officers had the principles and standards that would allow them serve you properly (AKA Leadership) instead of taking cues from other carriers union leaders on decision making ? Considering the reaction to this LOA, it should have never occurred or at the very least failed once membership feedback demanded it and not what another pilot group has done. It’s looks as if the term “flow-thru” should become a breed of canine preferably akin to say........a Teacup Chihuahua or other lapdog considering its effect on an Association officer. Of course, even lapdogs have a spinal column.

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    Wouldn’t it be wonderful if your Association officers had the principles and standards that would allow them serve you properly (AKA Leadership) instead of taking cues from other carriers union leaders on decision making ? Considering the reaction to this LOA, it should have never occurred or at the very least failed once membership feedback demanded it and not what another pilot group has done. It’s looks as if the term “flow-thru” should become a breed of canine preferably akin to say........a Teacup Chihuahua or other lapdog considering its effect on an Association officer. Of course, even lapdogs have a spinal column.
    You don't even know what's in the LOA beyond some vague bullet points here and have already opined that the union has "blown it" and are just a bunch of lapdogs. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you worked here and could read the detail of the TA, you might be solidly impressed. I really doubt it because of who you are but, any prudent Envoy pilot has good reason to be impressed by and large with the construct of the LOA. Improvements are in all areas and the pilot group gets many benefits that they do not now. Until Endeavor has a true ​flow through, there is no comparison here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xpanterica View Post
    Heard we're back to the drawing board after the world has changed again. schmuck?
    No clue. The world has indeed changed so one would hope ALPA and the company are starting from scratch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post


    You don't even know what's in the LOA beyond some vague bullet points here and have already opined that the union has "blown it" and are just a bunch of lapdogs. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you worked here and could read the detail of the TA, you might be solidly impressed. I really doubt it because of who you are but, any prudent Envoy pilot has good reason to be impressed by and large with the construct of the LOA. Improvements are in all areas and the pilot group gets many benefits that they do not now. Until Endeavor has a true ​flow through, there is no comparison here.
    One has to wonder why the union is selling an LOA with garbage bullet points and not selling us on all the hidden, allegedly good aspects of the LOA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xpanterica View Post
    Heard we're back to the drawing board after the world has changed again. schmuck?
    Not according to the ORD Reps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by couch View Post
    One has to wonder why the union is selling an LOA with garbage bullet points and not selling us on all the hidden, allegedly good aspects of the LOA.
    The LOA is in contract language. They know it's crap which is why they have to only put good bulletin points out. The entire MEC and NC needs to be recalled for putting this complete garbage out and pushing it to the pilots. They're clearly out of touch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post


    You don't even know what's in the LOA beyond some vague bullet points here and have already opined that the union has "blown it" and are just a bunch of lapdogs. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you worked here and could read the detail of the TA, you might be solidly impressed. I really doubt it because of who you are but, any prudent Envoy pilot has good reason to be impressed by and large with the construct of the LOA. Improvements are in all areas and the pilot group gets many benefits that they do not now. Until Endeavor has a true ​flow through, there is no comparison here.
    I have to admire your tenacity in your efforts as an anti-Envoy pilot stooge doing the bidding for others (whether approved or not). But, I get my perceptions from those Envoy pilots I've heard from who know as much as any line pilot about it considering it sounds like it's a "you have to vote on it to see what's in it" scenario, which by the way has a LONG history here and at Envoy's predecessor. You admit as much by claiming only "bullet points" (like Letter 3) are available and others state (as I predicted) is being SOLD by the Association. What they say isn't even in the ballpark from what I hear, especially now that they see MUCH greener grass at Endeavor, but nice try at blowing smoke up everyone's backsides here, even if it's yet another miserable failure for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    The LOA is in contract language. They know it's crap which is why they have to only put good bulletin points out. The entire MEC and NC needs to be recalled for putting this complete garbage out and pushing it to the pilots. They're clearly out of touch.
    Well, if that is the case, history is repeating itself yet again with a bought-and-paid-for Association again selling an inferior product. If it's not inferior to what Endeavor is getting, by all means please correct me with specifics. Ah the past...................why, oh why is it embraced repeatedly here over and over and over again expecting something different to result. Sounds like the Association has boxed itself into yet another corner, which is also a frequent product of the past. I guess it's all they know how to do now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Well, if that is the case, history is repeating itself yet again with a bought-and-paid-for Association again selling an inferior product. If it's not inferior to what Endeavor is getting, by all means please correct me with specifics. Ah the past...................why, oh why is it embraced repeatedly here over and over and over again expecting something different to result. Sounds like the Association has boxed itself into yet another corner, which is also a frequent product of the past. I guess it's all they know how to do now.
    ??? Isn't their flow already in place? What is being bought here? You have a hang over from your love affair with Team Tony. It's clouding your judgment.

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    There was a link in the October 2nd alpa email. The 18 pages of contract language didn’t make the bullet points any better. I was most interested by the almost complete lack of language regarding displacing fo line holders and bypassing reserve fo guys with > 20 hours. Please correct my interpretation if I’m wrong but I believe that if you’ve flown a high time trip on reserve and you could get another commutable 4 day the following week you could get bypassed during proffering and because you did proffer you entered the system and would be auto confirmed for 4am rap. What say the peanut gallery.

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