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Thread: Reserve Rules LOA Reached

  1. #101
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    My opinion is, if a pilot can interpret a screw job coming then they have interpreted the Loa correct

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    I suppose if that's the only thing you proffered for, but the way I read it is that if you were bypassed for one trip your proffer would go to the next choice and so on, and then, so long as you proffered for rap 2, if you're senior you'll get that. I could have that wrong, but that's how I read it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr mojo View Post
    ??? Isn't their flow already in place? What is being bought here? You have a hang over from your love affair with Team Tony. It's clouding your judgment.
    What is being bought ? If you have to ask that, then I think it is your judgement that is being clouded. ďTeam TonyĒ was simply the predecessor to this Association Command Post and they are following the exact same tack of being enablers at your expense. BTW, there can be no love affair between me and TT as my tenure pre-dated them for the most part, so you are also busting minimums on that assumption too. If you canít see history repeating itself, then thereís nothing anyone can do for you and you are doomed to repeat it.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 10-10-2017 at 10:28 PM.

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    Any rumors/updates on a preliminary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ordflyer8794 View Post
    Any rumors/updates on a preliminary?
    What does that have to do with the RSV LOA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    Let's see what the outcome of this vote is. My bet is that it's 85-90% in favor. That....right there.....justifies that 10% of this pilot group resides here and is unwilling to find anything good about this company.
    Your crystal ball must have come with free kool aid from a company garage sale.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by v1rotate View Post
    Your crystal ball must have come with free kool aid from a company garage sale.
    I talked to my union rep the other day about it (just before the conference call), and he was saying about 85-90% of pilots were AGAINST the LOA. Lets make sure we reference this when talking about credibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by No Tuna In Cockpit View Post
    I talked to my union rep the other day about it (just before the conference call), and he was saying about 85-90% of pilots were AGAINST the LOA. Lets make sure we reference this when talking about credibility.
    It also demonstrates the total disconnect between the union and the pilots. If the union thought this had a chance at passing, even before the Endeavor TA, they are totally out in left field.

  9. #109
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    Left center, it is a little deeper.

  10. #110
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    Well, fortunately we won't even have to go through the charade of voting on the garbage deal! ...

    Fellow Envoy Pilots,


    Our MEC has operated very much like a business over the past three years. There is accountability, budgets, performance reviews, meetings, and many other day-to-day activities that are, by and large, handled smoothly. Like any business, we conduct numerous transactions and frequently negotiate intricate deals. Whether it's with AAG/ENY management regarding our company, the FAA, or the leasing agent of the building we occupy, we always have the pilots' best interests in mind.

    Like any business, when the market changes, we must react to protect our interests, and Endeavor's Tentative Agreement (TA) has required the MEC to re-evaluate our position within our segment of the industry. Whether Endeavor's TA becomes the law of their land remains to be seen, but new questions have arisen with or without its passage.

    Over the past two weeks the MEC leadership (Officers, Status Reps, Strategic Planning, and the Negotiating Committee) have conducted All-Pilot Teleconferences and crew room visits with regards to the recent Reserve LOA. The Reserve LOA was crafted with the best intentions to be the first of several tweaks to Reserve; but clearly this concept falls short of your expectations. Indeed, we have been very impressed over the past two weeks with your detailed and impassioned responses to the document. Based on your feedback, the MEC knows there's more work to be done on Reserve. This is why it is so critical to review posted LOAs and provide feedback to your representatives.

    Last night the MEC spent more than three hours via teleconference to discuss your responses to the LOA, and based on that feedback we are going to discontinue consideration of the reserve LOA as written and ask that ALPA and Company representatives invest more time developing a more robust and encompassing reserve system. Envoy is among the leaders in our industry, and there's no reason we can't have a reserve system that works to the fullest for both pilots and management. To be clear, this will not be an easy path. If or when we achieve the results we are looking for, it will not be because of hard work alone; instead it will be due to a united involvement by our pilot group helping to shape the message and the final product.

    Thank you again for spending your valuable time with us this past week, and I urge you to remain engaged in the coming days as we will still be conducting the upcoming/scheduled base visits. I will also be asking LEC leaders to be in the crew rooms more frequently over the next few weeks to hear your input first-hand. I urge you to always bring the same passions and involvement to every discussion, whether it's now or in the future. Stay involved in the conversation! Your guidance will be crucial as we work diligently towards bringing about the kind of system you want.

    In Unity,

    Envoy MEC Chairman

  11. #111
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    Get me my money.

  12. #112
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    It looks like the dolphin got caught in a tuna net.

    Sorry Charlie!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Get me my money.
    Interesting (but not surprising) they are publicly hamstringing themselves to capitalizing on Endeavors comprehensive contract improvements to ONLY (it is hoped) translating that into a realization of an improved reserve system. Talk about selling yourself short. I canít but help be convinced this group is incapable of seeing themselves as anything other then beggars with hat in hand. Then again, considering their primary concern of flowing to AA, they canít ask for too much lest that #1 priority be threatened or diluted. But, as other regionals match or exceed Endeavor, what will their explanation be should only a better reserve system be the only improvement for pilots at Envoy as others pull away leaving Envoy pilots well behind ?

  14. #114
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    other pilots are already getting to AA faster from other regionals than the flow pilot will. Thats a fact. while they wait here for the flow like sheep waiting to be slaughtered, other regional pilots are moving ahead faster and with MORE money.
    Sir, can I have another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    other pilots are already getting to AA faster from other regionals than the flow pilot will. Thats a fact. while they wait here for the flow like sheep waiting to be slaughtered, other regional pilots are moving ahead faster and with MORE money.
    Agree......the flow pilots should have it better off then any other regional pilot getting hired off the street. Flows before any off the street.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz5422 View Post
    Agree......the flow pilots should have it better off then any other regional pilot getting hired off the street. Flows before any off the street.
    In theory they should, but in reality just like Letter 3, the present flow is primarily a mechanism to benefit others first. Letter 3 was primarily conceived as a mechanism to allow Eagle to fly RJís with pilot benefits (on both sides) secondary. When comparing the benefit to each pilot group, Eagle pilots came behind AA pilots. The present flow is no different, itís just a different primary benefit, that being a carrot to get pilots to come to the AA regional system, including Envoy. AA has no shortage of pilot applicants at present and so doesnít need a flow-thru. The AA regional system, including Envoy does, especially Envoy considering their growth goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    In theory they should, but in reality just like Letter 3, the present flow is primarily a mechanism to benefit others first. Letter 3 was primarily conceived as a mechanism to allow Eagle to fly RJís with pilot benefits (on both sides) secondary. When comparing the benefit to each pilot group, Eagle pilots came behind AA pilots. The present flow is no different, itís just a different primary benefit, that being a carrot to get pilots to come to the AA regional system, including Envoy. AA has no shortage of pilot applicants at present and so doesnít need a flow-thru. The AA regional system, including Envoy does, especially Envoy considering their growth goals.
    Exactly....this is why the flow isn't as great as some here are tooting it to be.....

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