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Thread: 150 CAs and ORD 175

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Not much choice. Someone has to foot the bill for their insatiable expansion goals. I would think most of these pilots forced into upgrade will be on reserve, many commuting. Even if they throw more hotel rooms out there, it's going to be a tough road and considering most of these pilots are years from flow due to metering at minimum rate, it might be a uncomfortably long one. The next question is then what happens when the inevitable slow down in new hires occurs ? What will the next draconian move be ?

    My condolences to the latest group of punching bags.
    Your **** is getting old.
    Last edited by Mr mojo; 09-22-2017 at 10:18 PM. Reason: he might sue me too

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    Quote Originally Posted by root|canal View Post
    Hold up. We're about fail checkrides so we don't have to upgrade? Boy did I pick the wrong f**king decade to start flying.
    It rubs me all kinds of wrong to throw anything (much less a checkride) but depending on the individual pilotís situation this could have the potential to severely screw up oneís family life to the point of divorce, etc. For the company to do this is a giant neon flashing sign that reads ďHoly Sh*t! Comair IIís chickens have come home to roost!Ē Wouldnít it be a kick in the a$$ if even the ďstreet captainĒ new-hires didnít want to be captains here?
    This will bite them. They donít see it but it will bite them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr mojo View Post
    From "Upgrade is too long..."

    to "I don't want to upgrade"

    #FIRSTWORLDPROBLEMS
    Are you saying that having to FORCE your pilot group to upgrade casts your particular airlineís work rules in a positive light?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vne View Post
    Are you saying that having to FORCE your pilot group to upgrade casts your particular airlineís work rules in a positive light?
    Nope. Just making an observation on this board. We went from "get the pitch forks and torches, where is my upgrade?" to "Mehhhh"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr mojo View Post
    Nope. Just making an observation on this board. We went from "get the pitch forks and torches, where is my upgrade?" to "Mehhhh"
    Fair enough. However, Iím sure that youíll agree that if they force the issue itís a fait accompli that there are huge labor relations issues with Envoy management?
    Warlord of the crewroom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr mojo View Post
    Your **** is getting old.
    It's an open forum and you opinion is noted. Be that as it is, what are the errors in that post ? All I see is a rational observation of the situation. Considering your response, I suppose in your view there's nothing to see in this latest development and everyone should move on, eh ? 1900 Ostriches at Envoy would be just fine then, yes ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr mojo View Post
    Nope. Just making an observation on this board. We went from "get the pitch forks and torches, where is my upgrade?" to "Mehhhh"
    Your observations are valid, but opposing ones you dislike aren't then, I guess. No surprise. It wouldn't be an issue if the deficiencies you don't want others to 'observe' didn't exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOHICA View Post
    If they force FOs to upgrade, those FOs could simply not pass training and then return to their previous position. Given how crappy reserve QOL (especially with commuting) is, a checkride bust might be worth it. And it won't keep someone from flowing.
    When we were complaining about such long wait times to upgrade the reserve system wasn't as bad as it is now. Now with the relationship so caustic and QOL so poor on reserve, I would find it immensely telling if everyone went to training on their Loft just "V1, Rotate", invert, pull, "I like to return to my prior seat please."

    Remember, w/aqp there is no more busting check rides, just he/she needs additional training.

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    Iíve been on reserve for both seats, itís not that much worse now compared to the past. FOs can now make almost as much as a these super junior captains, so they are taking the QOL of a line holder over reserve. They are finally making a livable wage, unlike what we all experienced for ****ing years, staring at the upgrade being forever away.

    Yeah, reserve is worse than being a line holder. No ****. Itís not a death sentence, thatís just how seniority works. Iím all for improvements to the system, but you idiots just 24/7 bitching about the company are trying to drive people away, when weíve had it 10x worse in the past than these new hires have ever dreamed. Itís mind boggling.

    Weíve had 10 year FOs, people on reserve for years, 20k first year pay. Right now is living the ****ing dream compared to the past. Some of yíall are just salty and want to bitch because the company ****ed us in the past, meanwhile youíre about to flow to a major which, just like me, we couldnít get hired off the street at. How many guys do you think would kill to be in our position?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyinsol0 View Post
    Iíve been on reserve for both seats, itís not that much worse now compared to the past. FOs can now make almost as much as a these super junior captains, so they are taking the QOL of a line holder over reserve. They are finally making a livable wage, unlike what we all experienced for ****ing years, staring at the upgrade being forever away.

    Yeah, reserve is worse than being a line holder. No ****. Itís not a death sentence, thatís just how seniority works. Iím all for improvements to the system, but you idiots just 24/7 bitching about the company are trying to drive people away, when weíve had it 10x worse in the past than these new hires have ever dreamed. Itís mind boggling.

    Weíve had 10 year FOs, people on reserve for years, 20k first year pay. Right now is living the ****ing dream compared to the past. Some of yíall are just salty and want to bitch because the company ****ed us in the past, meanwhile youíre about to flow to a major which, just like me, we couldnít get hired off the street at. How many guys do you think would kill to be in our position?
    What he said. The company could drive a Brinks truck up to some of you guys door and you would still f**king bitch and complain.

    F**king bugleboy will be along shortly to refute flyinsolo's post and to re f**king hash how the flow is going to blow up in our face.

  11. #31
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    No, we just have a bunch of weaklings that cry about reserve, last month I want to upgrade, month before was get rid of the senior pilots, what a bunch of plain wet cats

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdflyer View Post
    When we were complaining about such long wait times to upgrade the reserve system wasn't as bad as it is now. Now with the relationship so caustic and QOL so poor on reserve, I would find it immensely telling if everyone went to training on their Loft just "V1, Rotate", invert, pull, "I like to return to my prior seat please."

    Remember, w/aqp there is no more busting check rides, just he/she needs additional training.
    Um no? You can still bust your check ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOHICA View Post
    If they force FOs to upgrade, those FOs could simply not pass training and then return to their previous position. Given how crappy reserve QOL (especially with commuting) is, a checkride bust might be worth it. And it won't keep someone from flowing.
    What is the union response on forced upgrades?

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    Probably the usual. Long silence followed by a weakly worded "we're disappointed" email.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    What he said. The company could drive a Brinks truck up to some of you guys door and you would still f**king bitch and complain.

    F**king bugleboy will be along shortly to refute flyinsolo's post and to re f**king hash how the flow is going to blow up in our face.
    PFFFFFFTTTTTT..........Another sewage spray from our favorite flopping marine mammal.

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    Actually dolphin, I have not seen a brinks truck pull up in my driveway to make a delivery but all those complaining f/o's Have. This problem is the unions and management's doing. Watered down pay rates, no pay raises, qol stinks, schedules suck and intimidation is fill swing. But what does anyone have to complain about, forget these problems at envoy because we have flow. I am waiting for the next Loa rammed down our throats by the me for DEC pilots.

  18. #38
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    The flopping fish/mammal does make a valid point though. While it may be meaningless to those planning to retire at envoy, the guaranteed flow does have significant value. While I landed on my feet at a good carrier that treats us well, it certainly isn't a career airline. Could you make a career of it if you had to, sure.... but it's nowhere near the no interview flow to a legacy job. In that regard, the lifetime earning difference literally is like getting a Brinks truck in the driveway.

    If staffing isn't the big problem it was, and since all we hear is how big the latest class drop is, then there shouldn't be a problem making some changes to improve QOL.... right?
    Last edited by Cujo665; 09-24-2017 at 10:39 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    The flopping fish/mammal does make a valid point though. While it may be meaningless to those planning to retire at envoy, the guaranteed flow does have significant value. While I landed on my feet at a good carrier that treats us well, it certainly isn't a career airline. Could you make a career of it if you had to, sure.... but it's nowhere near the no interview flow to a legacy job. In that regard, the lifetime earning difference literally is like getting a Brinks truck in the driveway.
    I agree with the premise of your point (or anybody's point) about the value of the flow (and have never implied it would permanently cease, only that such a scenario is possible under certain circumstances and more likely it would temporarily cease for various reasons which it already has), the hissing flopper's point was more along the lines that pilots should simply look the other way regarding the contract disregard and treatment and pretend all is well and stop complaining simply because there IS a flow. Of course, that is meaningless to those who aren't flowing as they foot the bill as the permanent minority while the complacent majority (including the union leadership) sells their interests out for faster exit. At any rate, MY point in that post wasn't really even about that reality, but about him (as usual) needlessly ingratiating me as his favorite piŮata into a post regarding what someone else has stated that has nothing to do with me in another attempt to deflect the real problems at Envoy into ME being the problem at Envoy.

    He's obsessed and delusional of course, but that is already obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    If staffing isn't the big problem it was, and since all we here is how big the latest class drop is, then there shouldn't be a problem making some changes to improve QOL.... right?
    You'd think, yet even with all these developments, so far nothing. But looking at history Cuj, you have to admit this carrier has had strong staffing periods in its past (both as its present identity and past identities) and the same dysfunctional attitude and treatment was still rampant, so IMO, I don't think staffing is really a component that is a cause, but more of a byproduct that makes another excuse. The problem is systemic and has become a norm. It would take a 180 about face for significant change and that would mean accepting some vulnerability which they equate with weakness and so the beat goes on and will likely to continue to go on. Just my .02, as usual..................

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOHICA View Post
    If they force FOs to upgrade, those FOs could simply not pass training and then return to their previous position.
    Well that's completely stupid.... and put a training failure on your permanent record. Good luck explaining that when you go interview to get out of this place.

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