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Thread: New Bonus

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Not sure what you are really getting at here and going to have to strongly disagree. There is a HUGE emphasis on degrees now. Check out Envoy pilot recruitment page if you are interested, but you would see what I mean. I stand behind the fact that a 1500 CFI fresh from a 4 year degree program at a prominent aviation college like UND or Embry Riddle along with instruction given in Garmin G1000 equipped equipment is far superior to clunking along in a Baron with steam gauges. You are FAR more trainable coming from a high tech rich training environment like Riddle or UND.
    Not sure what I'm getting at ? But you have a college degree, right ?

    OK, I'll dumb it down to 5th grade - You disregard the fact known contractual violations occur essentially nullifying those provisions and then claim just because it might be happening, it might not always. Yet, when it comes to the flow, you flip inverted and claim it will ALWAYS happen because it's contractual. You can't have it both ways...........well, I guess YOU can. As far as your beliefs in what makes a good or even "trainable" pilot, I'll bet under most circumstances a proficient steam guage baron pilot could adapt easier to a Seminole with G1000 (or any flat panel displays like Aspen, Avidyne, etc.) then vice versa. That being said, some pilots in each category would not meet minimum standards and some in each will.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    We don't fly antiquated Shorts, CASA's, Saabs and ATR's anymore. We fly state of the art jetliners that cruise at the same speed as a 737 and the 175 in particular is just a smaller version of the baby 319 anyway. Adapt or the tech will pass you by. Why do you think these UND/Riddle grads excel in training? They have the EXPERIENCE necessary to run a complicated FMS and the ability to manage automated systems. There you go.
    I've flown some of the "antiquated" turboprops you list above and RJ's and found the RJ a much easier aircraft to learn and fly. Twice the performance and half the handling problems with an engine out, complicated systems simplified, emergency checklists reduced and an easier platform to manage. BTW, the ATR is still in production. My experience has proven regarding "tech" that many pilots might be strong in that area, but weak when the tech isn't there to hold them up. Look at Asiana. They have the same type of "tech oriented" program and they couldn't fly a visual approach from a high downwind without chopping the tail off. Technology is only part of the equation, NOT the foundation to a well rounded pilot. In reality, systems management be it nav or flight isn't one of the more major risk areas, it's loss of situational awareness and ability to function without the tech, especially when the tech is not available or the workload too high to put it into play.

    I think you focus on exactly the WRONG places in your assumptions and thus conclusions. You seem dazzled by "airliners" with "technology" and disregard aircraft and airmanship situations you don't find sexy enough. You also deny certain realities of the environment you exist in, namely the contractual and pilot treatment issues so readily obvious. If I was a betting man, I'd put you high on the list of a future captain who will plow it in based on the fact you arrogantly think you have everything (and everyone) figured out and cannot be told anything. That is the EXACT type of personality most likely to run (or participate in) a flawed flight deck atmosphere and a major component in most accident chains. It would be sad (but not unexpected) for your greatest contribution to aviation to one day show future pilots what NOT to do and think, but it seems your mental technology is destined to lead you to that unfortunate place.

  3. #43
    Registered User ardvark's Avatar
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    Dacuj, you're an idiot for sure. Your point is the young person understands automation better but is lost when it does not work or they get in trouble with weather they lose is too. But hey, the know how to direct to. You're an idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    I've flown some of the "antiquated" turboprops you list above and RJ's and found the RJ a much easier aircraft to learn and fly. Twice the performance and half the handling problems with an engine out, complicated systems simplified, emergency checklists reduced and an easier platform to manage. BTW, the ATR is still in production. My experience has proven regarding "tech" that many pilots might be strong in that area, but weak when the tech isn't there to hold them up. Look at Asiana. They have the same type of "tech oriented" program and they couldn't fly a visual approach from a high downwind without chopping the tail off. Technology is only part of the equation, NOT the foundation to a well rounded pilot. In reality, systems management be it nav or flight isn't one of the more major risk areas, it's loss of situational awareness and ability to function without the tech, especially when the tech is not available or the workload too high to put it into play.

    I think you focus on exactly the WRONG places in your assumptions and thus conclusions. You seem dazzled by "airliners" with "technology" and disregard aircraft and airmanship situations you don't find sexy enough. You also deny certain realities of the environment you exist in, namely the contractual and pilot treatment issues so readily obvious. If I was a betting man, I'd put you high on the list of a future captain who will plow it in based on the fact you arrogantly think you have everything (and everyone) figured out and cannot be told anything. That is the EXACT type of personality most likely to run (or participate in) a flawed flight deck atmosphere and a major component in most accident chains. It would be sad (but not unexpected) for your greatest contribution to aviation to one day show future pilots what NOT to do and think, but it seems your mental technology is destined to lead you to that unfortunate place.
    I haven't agreed with much you've posted on the forums over the last decade, but on this, I'm with you 100 percent. Well said.

  5. #45
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    They are going to give the for cadets super seniority on the new hire class so they can bid the e175.
    What's say alpa?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    They are going to give the for cadets super seniority on the new hire class so they can bid the e175.
    What's say alpa?
    If true, this should be of no surprise. Envoy ALPA sold out the concept of seniority at this airline long ago. In a functional pilot union, the more senior, the higher the income.

    Not here.

    In a functional pilot union, seniority determines the ability to bid another aircraft/domicile (provided no lock-in is being served which is something chosen by a pilot).

    Not here.

    I'm sorry Ard, this pilot group is now non-union and the "Association" you pay dues to is one that places your (the line pilot) interests last. It is simply no longer deniable.

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    Skywest just announced year for year pay at 121 carriers plus 7500.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkvisual View Post
    Skywest just announced year for year pay at 121 carriers plus 7500.
    They all now finally see the Tsunami wave approaching and are jockeying for the highest ground. Too little, too late as in the next year or so, there will BE no high ground for regionals. The well is almost dry and even with FTD rule changes (should they occur like the ATA and other subterfuge groups will lobby Russian style) back to putting 250 hours neophytes into regional cockpits to assist 1500 captains, that will take years to get up and running.

    It will be interesting to listen to Dacuj modify his sales pitch to validate 250 hour pilots (coupled with 1500 hour captains no less) as "trainable" (by a 1500 hour or street captain ?). A chimp is theoretically trainable (provided one has enough bananas), but that is not the same as seasoned and uniformly capable. The regional industry is destined for a CAT 5 landfall when it comes to the pilot shortage storm and their casualty situation will have been entirely self caused. To this very day, most of them still haven't learned a damn thing.

    If only they had heeded multiple warnings over the last several years.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 09-15-2017 at 08:35 PM.

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    SEniority in new hire classes was just changed from age to a combination of three things. I am sure everyone will learn about the new seniority order in the next couple days. It was emailed out to all p2p's.

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    I'm in total agreement that the pipeline instructors we've been getting are top notch. All young guys and very eager to learn. All very excited to be on the express pathway to AA. I'll take any one of them in a cockpit any day over Beagleboy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    I'm in total agreement that the pipeline instructors we've been getting are top notch. All young guys and very eager to learn. All very excited to be on the express pathway to AA. I'll take any one of them in a cockpit any day over Beagleboy.
    Obviously that's because you think that "eager learning" they'll embrace will include any and all of your B.S. and without question. Snake oil sales associates, hucksters and con men always prefer young impressionable minds over critical thinkers.

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    Email it to the pilot group not the p2p.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Email it to the pilot group not the p2p.
    Exactly. P2P should not exist. Why do they get information the rest of the Pilot group doesn't?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    Exactly. P2P should not exist. Why do they get information the rest of the Pilot group doesn't?
    Don't be so jelly! It is so P2P's are not blindsided by questions. They are there to dispel rumors, answer questions, or help find answers to questions, and to give feedback to the MEC. Volunteer if you want to help

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    Exactly. P2P should not exist. Why do they get information the rest of the Pilot group doesn't?
    I would suggest getting with your union instead of complaining here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    I would suggest getting with your union instead of complaining here.
    We have! The things Eaglepilot "complains" about are true and real. Again you don't know this because your under the desk. You bash everyone on here if we don't have your same ideology. What you still don't understand is the QOL sucks. Jm's, lack of CA bonuses, rsv rules are all big issues. You turn and look away of these things. We do talk to the Union, but the company violates the contract everyday, our union can't keep up. You say CA will flow soon so they don't need a bonus? Same thing goes for FO's. They don't need a bonus when they will upgrade/flow soon.

    Btw the gummer vs entitled university kid is fun! It's an argument that's been going on forever. After a long enough stretch here, I'll still go with the gummer old freight dog experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobs98tlr View Post

    Btw the gummer vs entitled university kid is fun! It's an argument that's been going on forever. After a long enough stretch here, I'll still go with the gummer old freight dog experience.
    Speaks for itself. This old and backward way of thinking needs to be purged. Hopefully it will as we continue to get retire and flow the older and "my way or the highway" less enlightened part of the pilot group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Email it to the pilot group not the p2p.
    Chuck-

    You were military right? Then you understand top down. The MEC educates the P2Ps so they can be subject matters experts on the hot topics. Then they release it to the pilot group. This way when the questions come, the P2Ps are in a position answer questions from the masses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 541JRE View Post
    Don't be so jelly! It is so P2P's are not blindsided by questions. They are there to dispel rumors, answer questions, or help find answers to questions, and to give feedback to the MEC. Volunteer if you want to help
    So release it to the Pilots as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr mojo View Post
    Chuck-

    You were military right? Then you understand top down. The MEC educates the P2Ps so they can be subject matters experts on the hot topics. Then they release it to the pilot group. This way when the questions come, the P2Ps are in a position answer questions from the masses.
    Except almost half the information the P2Ps get are never released to the Pilots which is why I'm no longer a P2P. I disagree with withholding information to the pilots.

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