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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    If you were ever a CFI, you must have really sucked (but we already suspected that). Any pilot (especially an instructor) with an ounce of sense knows that pilot quality is to a major degree an individual thing and not necessarily one borne of past experience. Thus, those pilots you belittle who flew "clapped out Barons" got experience in not just flying, but surviving. Back in the day, pilots had to sacrifice far more then now to make it to a regional carrier and usually had upwards of 2500 hours along with 1000 of those surviving in freight dog roles and that was just for the opportunity to throw bags into the back of a metroliner or BE-99 along with right-seat flying. They paid their dues. Nowadays, most of the pilots you talk about that graduate with those 1500 hours from University school X spent virtually all of their time in carefully controlled and monitored conditions (mostly VFR) with dispatch clipboards and specific syllabuses. I know, I used to teach at a major University back in the day. Don't get me wrong, there are some very talented aviators coming through that medium, but a good instructor knows to take (and treat) each pilot as an individual and that includes fellow pilots once you do get to an airline be they Captain or F/O.

    It's sad to hear from 8-Balls like yourself who obviously learned little during his ascent to his present position and IMO, one day American Airlines will be that much worse off for it. For the others here......yes, I have a college degree and no, I never flew for Chaparral Airlines, but at least I can spell Chaparral unlike certain loudmouth paper shufflers who think they know it all and constantly prove themselves otherwise.
    I much prefer the younger hipsters they are hiring now vs. the old stick in the mud types. Much like yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlameInSky View Post
    I much prefer the younger hipsters they are hiring now vs. the old stick in the mud types. Much like yourself.
    Considering who you display yourself as here, I find that comforting. Being validated by you would concern me enough to re-evaluate who I am. Thankfully, that won't be necessary and you are free to continue your professional and personal relationships with your fellow stooges. Even us old "stick in the mud types" like good comedy, even if it is embarrassing to the performers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlameInSky View Post
    The flow can't be stopped. It's contractual.
    Contracts are not set in stone like the 10 Commandments. History is filled with plenty of scenarios where something "contractual" was vaporized at some subsequent point in time. Just sayin'.........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    The flow is contractual.
    So are junior Manning limits. The company violates that.

    So is the turn back language. The company violates that.

    So is adequate staffing. The company violates that.

    Want me keep going?

    Also, if flow is working so well, why is money being thrown at new hires? How about those of us that suffered as FOs for 7, 8, 9 years making under 50k?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Look for specifics on an increase in the new hire bonus soon. I'm talking BIG increase.

    Vacancy coming soon as well. Delayed in order to firm up 175 ORD. Don't want to put it out and then have to amend it.
    Aka due to lack of pilots who have the time to upgrade.

  6. #26
    Registered User Dacuj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    If you were ever a CFI, you must have really sucked (but we already suspected that). Any pilot (especially an instructor) with an ounce of sense knows that pilot quality is to a major degree an individual thing and not necessarily one borne of past experience. Thus, those pilots you belittle who flew "clapped out Barons" got experience in not just flying, but surviving. Back in the day, pilots had to sacrifice far more then now to make it to a regional carrier and usually had upwards of 2500 hours along with 1000 of those surviving in freight dog roles and that was just for the opportunity to throw bags into the back of a metroliner or BE-99 along with right-seat flying. They paid their dues. Nowadays, most of the pilots you talk about that graduate with those 1500 hours from University school X spent virtually all of their time in carefully controlled and monitored conditions (mostly VFR) with dispatch clipboards and specific syllabuses. I know, I used to teach at a major University back in the day. Don't get me wrong, there are some very talented aviators coming through that medium, but a good instructor knows to take (and treat) each pilot as an individual and that includes fellow pilots once you do get to an airline be they Captain or F/O.

    It's sad to hear from 8-Balls like yourself who obviously learned little during his ascent to his present position and IMO, one day American Airlines will be that much worse off for it. For the others here......yes, I have a college degree and no, I never flew for Chaparral Airlines, but at least I can spell Chaparral unlike certain loudmouth paper shufflers who think they know it all and constantly prove themselves otherwise.
    Riddle me this then Mr. University Instructor. If you have a fresh CFI with 1500 hours and no 121 knowledge, you can train him exactly as you want and there are no bad habits to break. Like that "freight dog" that violated every rule in the book, he brings that mentality to the cockpit whether you admit it or not, and some of that will rub off on the new guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nygiants View Post
    how bout bonuses for us already here? new hires dont mean **** if they cant keep us around
    Ditto. Captains get the shaft, again. New Captains are making less than new hires. That's BS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Because you'll be flowing soon. And it's the other way around. You (your flow) don't mean squat if we don't have huge classes monthly.
    Thought flow was contractural? No new hires, we still flow. It's in the contract, right?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    So are junior Manning limits. The company violates that.

    So is the turn back language. The company violates that.

    So is adequate staffing. The company violates that.

    Want me keep going?

    Also, if flow is working so well, why is money being thrown at new hires? How about those of us that suffered as FOs for 7, 8, 9 years making under 50k?
    Sure, keep going. You're full of it anyway. And past performance is no indication of future results. Nobody cares about your sob story. Maybe hit up a local bar and throw the bartender a 20 spot for the sympathetic ear you are looking for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 360DD View Post
    At what point do they take a pay cut? What a screwed up scheme.
    2nd year.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Sure, keep going. You're full of it anyway. And past performance is no indication of future results. Nobody cares about your sob story. Maybe hit up a local bar and throw the bartender a 20 spot for the sympathetic ear you are looking for.
    Not my sob story. It's true. But you wouldn't know that cause you sit in an office all day.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Riddle me this then Mr. University Instructor. If you have a fresh CFI with 1500 hours and no 121 knowledge, you can train him exactly as you want and there are no bad habits to break. Like that "freight dog" that violated every rule in the book, he brings that mentality to the cockpit whether you admit it or not, and some of that will rub off on the new guys.
    Did you do anything other than flight instruct before you got here?
    Warlord of the crewroom.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    If you were ever a CFI, you must have really sucked (but we already suspected that). Any pilot (especially an instructor) with an ounce of sense knows that pilot quality is to a major degree an individual thing and not necessarily one borne of past experience. Thus, those pilots you belittle who flew "clapped out Barons" got experience in not just flying, but surviving. Back in the day, pilots had to sacrifice far more then now to make it to a regional carrier and usually had upwards of 2500 hours along with 1000 of those surviving in freight dog roles and that was just for the opportunity to throw bags into the back of a metroliner or BE-99 along with right-seat flying. They paid their dues. Nowadays, most of the pilots you talk about that graduate with those 1500 hours from University school X spent virtually all of their time in carefully controlled and monitored conditions (mostly VFR) with dispatch clipboards and specific syllabuses. I know, I used to teach at a major University back in the day. Don't get me wrong, there are some very talented aviators coming through that medium, but a good instructor knows to take (and treat) each pilot as an individual and that includes fellow pilots once you do get to an airline be they Captain or F/O.

    It's sad to hear from 8-Balls like yourself who obviously learned little during his ascent to his present position and IMO, one day American Airlines will be that much worse off for it. For the others here......yes, I have a college degree and no, I never flew for Chaparral Airlines, but at least I can spell Chaparral unlike certain loudmouth paper shufflers who think they know it all and constantly prove themselves otherwise.
    I'll fly with a freight dog any day. At least you know they've seen more than marginal VFR.
    Warlord of the crewroom.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Riddle me this then Mr. University Instructor. If you have a fresh CFI with 1500 hours and no 121 knowledge, you can train him exactly as you want and there are no bad habits to break. Like that "freight dog" that violated every rule in the book, he brings that mentality to the cockpit whether you admit it or not, and some of that will rub off on the new guys.
    Your "riddle" (Pun intended) is invalid as it is based on assumptions. Who is to say Pilot A (fresh CFI) is "completely trainable" simply by virtue of background X and pilot B (freight dog) automatically is someone who violates FAR's (let alone the absurd claim of "every rule in the book") by virtue of flying freight. If the former were true, ZERO pilots with University CFI's would be rejected by Envoy which we know isn't true and likewise, NO pilots with past 135 freight experience would be at Delta, AA or other legacies, even going so far as to be among your instructors and check airman when you get to that legacy.

    You come across stupider with every post, Batman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Riddle me this then Mr. University Instructor. If you have a fresh CFI with 1500 hours and no 121 knowledge, you can train him exactly as you want and there are no bad habits to break. Like that "freight dog" that violated every rule in the book, he brings that mentality to the cockpit whether you admit it or not, and some of that will rub off on the new guys.
    Assuming there actually is some validity to this argument; the problem then becomes where do you draw the line on which rules in the book get violated and which don't?
    __________________________________________________ __

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Sure, keep going. You're full of it anyway. And past performance is no indication of future results. Nobody cares about your sob story. Maybe hit up a local bar and throw the bartender a 20 spot for the sympathetic ear you are looking for.
    Now this is downright funny and a classic case of inverted thinking coupled with myopic irony. First of all, we notice no denial of his points and as such we'll consider validated by you despite your feeble attempt at deflection. Secondly, in reference to inversion, myopia and irony, you state "past performance is no indication of future results" which is EXACTLY what I and others have stated about the flow-thru to which you (and other in nearby cubicles) attack and dispute constantly, yet in opposition attempt to use here to support that which you avoid, but inadvertently validated in the process.

    Obviously you are only interested in what works for you and selectively applying that. To wit, a contract that is being violated and can be proved to be so you brush off as something that is only others opinion and well..........you claim it doesn't mean it always will, yet claim one of the contractual provisions can never be violated (which HAS already been violated in the past) and yet, you (along with others) have claimed it cannot exactly because it's contractual. I haven't been so amused since the last time I watched a dog chase its tail which is exactly what you do here and quite proficiently, I might add.

    Like I said, good comedy and embarrassing to the performers, but mirth is a good thing for the stressed out pilots of Envoy, yes ?

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Now this is downright funny and a classic case of inverted thinking coupled with myopic irony. First of all, we notice no denial of his points and as such we'll consider validated by you despite your feeble attempt at deflection. Secondly, in reference to inversion, myopia and irony, you state "past performance is no indication of future results" which is EXACTLY what I and others have stated about the flow-thru to which you (and other in nearby cubicles) attack and dispute constantly, yet in opposition attempt to use here to support that which you avoid, but inadvertently validated in the process.

    Obviously you are only interested in what works for you and selectively applying that. To wit, a contract that is being violated and can be proved to be so you brush off as something that is only others opinion and well..........you claim it doesn't mean it always will, yet claim one of the contractual provisions can never be violated (which HAS already been violated in the past) and yet, you (along with others) have claimed it cannot exactly because it's contractual. I haven't been so amused since the last time I watched a dog chase its tail which is exactly what you do here and quite proficiently, I might add.

    Like I said, good comedy and embarrassing to the performers, but mirth is a good thing for the stressed out pilots of Envoy, yes ?
    Not sure what you are really getting at here and going to have to strongly disagree. There is a HUGE emphasis on degrees now. Check out Envoy pilot recruitment page if you are interested, but you would see what I mean. I stand behind the fact that a 1500 CFI fresh from a 4 year degree program at a prominent aviation college like UND or Embry Riddle along with instruction given in Garmin G1000 equipped equipment is far superior to clunking along in a Baron with steam gauges. You are FAR more trainable coming from a high tech rich training environment like Riddle or UND.

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    So you're targeting the "Children of the Magenta Line". Got it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vne View Post
    So you're targeting the "Children of the Magenta Line". Got it.
    We don't fly antiquated Shorts, CASA's, Saabs and ATR's anymore. We fly state of the art jetliners that cruise at the same speed as a 737 and the 175 in particular is just a smaller version of the baby 319 anyway. Adapt or the tech will pass you by. Why do you think these UND/Riddle grads excel in training? They have the EXPERIENCE necessary to run a complicated FMS and the ability to manage automated systems. There you go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    We don't fly antiquated Shorts, CASA's, Saabs and ATR's anymore. We fly state of the art jetliners that cruise at the same speed as a 737 and the 175 in particular is just a smaller version of the baby 319 anyway. Adapt or the tech will pass you by. Why do you think these UND/Riddle grads excel in training? They have the EXPERIENCE necessary to run a complicated FMS and the ability to manage automated systems. There you go.
    Skyhawks and Seminoles have FMS's these days? Interesting. I guess you're saying the company doesn't want anybody else so folks with 91/135 experience need not apply. Guess they'll have to go to a Delta or United feeder. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.
    Answer me this - if these smart college grads are not coming here in the numbers the company wants right now the answer was to up the bonus. What happens when these kids realize there's a pay cut in their future? Or that this company is willing to dump on its current employees for the next group of preferred pilots?

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