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Thread: GoJet Flow Program (2 years)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    What you aren't saying here is that an Envoy FO will never see 2nd year FO pay with our 3 year upgrade. Be nice if you weren't selective with your facts.
    How does a pilot go from 1st year FO pay to 3 year captain pay without hitting second year FO pay?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    How does a pilot go from 1st year FO pay to 3 year captain pay without hitting second year FO pay?
    My guess is he's more referring to the current "3 month upgrade". Which is going to be true until DAL/UAL up their incentive packages for their regionals to keep their pilots; depending on their aggressiveness we may see that stop as fast as it started.
    While it's a good thing that the upgrade time has come down I'd guess that the three month FO-to-CA guys are going to be sitting at the bottom of RSV for a while as our more senior R-ATP guys get their required time to upgrade.

    But no, you can't go from year 1 pay to year 3 pay any way you cut it.
    Last edited by Vne; 08-02-2017 at 06:46 AM.

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    What's 2nd year Capt pay at eagle? I upgraded in 5 years. And made less as a RSV CA then a senior FO. Throw in 11 days off and the use and abuse. I couldn't wait to go back to the right seat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vne View Post
    My guess is he's more referring to the current "3 month upgrade". Which is going to be true until DAL/UAL up their incentive packages for their regionals to keep their pilots; depending on their aggressiveness we may see that stop as fast as it started.
    While it's a good thing that the upgrade time has come down I'd guess that the three month FO-to-CA guys are going to be sitting at the bottom of RSV for a while as our more senior R-ATP guys get their required time to upgrade.

    But no, you can't go from year 1 pay to year 3 pay any way you cut it.
    He states an Envoy pilot will never see 2nd year F/O pay and nobody can represent that with certainty in the future. The bottom line is that NO regional can match any of the principle LCC's pay scales and in the case of Envoy vs. Spirit, the other contractual benefits and QWL. By his own admission and proven by his own sales pitch, that being coming to Envoy to flow to AA, Envoy isn't in the same league as Spirit as some pilots who go to Spirit do so with the intention of making it their final career stop. Envoy is sold (by him and others) as a stepping stone to AA and not as a place to stay for your career. Flow, flow and flow they continuously cry ! If Envoy was to be considered a potential career stop like Spirit and not a temporary stepping stone, ALPA and the three stooges here would be pushing to make it exactly that and they are doing no such thing. The MEC won't rock the boat so as not to jeopardize their own flows and the stooges do little more then Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk and Woo, Woo, Woo about flowing to AA, so that IS the reality.

    Come TO Envoy, but the reason is to GO to AA. Everyone knows including management that if it weren't for the flow, tumbleweeds would be blowing down the halls of the Envoy training center instead of new-hires and that doesn't happen at Spirit's training center. Just say "no" to slapstick facts from the 3 stooges.

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    Preacher, meet choir.
    Warlord of the crewroom.

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    65, I believe. I'm on year 8 CA pay now, and unless I pick up OT the difference from being a 6 year FO and a 6 year CA with the retention bonus isn't much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DilsonWic View Post
    65, I believe. I'm on year 8 CA pay now, and unless I pick up OT the difference from being a 6 year FO and a 6 year CA with the retention bonus isn't much.
    40x75x12= 36,000
    65x75x12=58,500

    How is that not much more?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    40x75x12= 36,000
    65x75x12=58,500

    How is that not much more?!
    Plus the bonuses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    40x75x12= 36,000
    65x75x12=58,500

    How is that not much more?!
    He's full of crap,i took the first upgrade i could,and yes life on reserve is tough,but its an instant 30000 dollars raise in 12 month time.

    Upgraded in 6 and change,i picked up tons of OT never was anywhere close to CA pay.

    I call that bull manure on all.of those comments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    He states an Envoy pilot will never see 2nd year F/O pay and nobody can represent that with certainty in the future. The bottom line is that NO regional can match any of the principle LCC's pay scales and in the case of Envoy vs. Spirit, the other contractual benefits and QWL. By his own admission and proven by his own sales pitch, that being coming to Envoy to flow to AA, Envoy isn't in the same league as Spirit as some pilots who go to Spirit do so with the intention of making it their final career stop. Envoy is sold (by him and others) as a stepping stone to AA and not as a place to stay for your career. Flow, flow and flow they continuously cry ! If Envoy was to be considered a potential career stop like Spirit and not a temporary stepping stone, ALPA and the three stooges here would be pushing to make it exactly that and they are doing no such thing. The MEC won't rock the boat so as not to jeopardize their own flows and the stooges do little more then Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk and Woo, Woo, Woo about flowing to AA, so that IS the reality.

    Come TO Envoy, but the reason is to GO to AA. Everyone knows including management that if it weren't for the flow, tumbleweeds would be blowing down the halls of the Envoy training center instead of new-hires and that doesn't happen at Spirit's training center. Just say "no" to slapstick facts from the 3 stooges.
    There it is. The BS diatribe response from our resident goon. Seriously, how many phrases did they program you to say when the string in your back is pulled? "Flow won't work." "AA stops hiring." "Flow slowed and cancelled." Those are certainly the top 3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    40x75x12= 36,000
    65x75x12=58,500

    How is that not much more?!
    Not trying to argue. But add the 10,000 grand retention. I'm not saying you make MORE as an FO. I'm saying you don't make A LOT more by just upgrading and not picking up OT. I'm getting my a$$ kicked on RSV, not breaking guarantee and sometimes wish I had my top 10 FO bid status again. It was easy to add a turn on the front or back of a 4 day. 13/15 days off, no JMs or turn backs, or getting called to sit S3 on my last day. For not that much LESS of a paycheck.

    Disclaimer; just my own personal experience. Results may vary.

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    It's a fair point that captain pay only slightly exceeds line-holding FO pay, especially when considering that FOs temporarily receive a retention bonus and new/future captain upgrades do not receive any retention bonus. (This implies that the company doesn't desire your retention once you upgrade.)

    However, I think it's time it's time to remove the rose colored glasses regarding senior FO QOL. People love to glamorize the "great senior FO QOL," but this is largely a romanticized myth. Such "great QOL" no longer exists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DilsonWic View Post
    Not trying to argue. But add the 10,000 grand retention. I'm not saying you make MORE as an FO. I'm saying you don't make A LOT more by just upgrading and not picking up OT. I'm getting my a$$ kicked on RSV, not breaking guarantee and sometimes wish I had my top 10 FO bid status again. It was easy to add a turn on the front or back of a 4 day. 13/15 days off, no JMs or turn backs, or getting called to sit S3 on my last day. For not that much LESS of a paycheck.

    Disclaimer; just my own personal experience. Results may vary.
    We captains get bonuses too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    We captains get bonuses too.
    Not all CA. Those that upgrade in October of last year only got one bonus after upgrade and that is it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    There it is. The BS diatribe response from our resident goon. Seriously, how many phrases did they program you to say when the string in your back is pulled? "Flow won't work." "AA stops hiring." "Flow slowed and cancelled." Those are certainly the top 3.
    Readers Digest Version of the above:

    Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk...........Woo, Woo,Woo !!!

    Moe and Larry should be along any minute to join your Slapstick show. If only it was as funny as your idols.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravobridge View Post
    It's a fair point that captain pay only slightly exceeds line-holding FO pay, especially when considering that FOs temporarily receive a retention bonus and new/future captain upgrades do not receive any retention bonus. (This implies that the company doesn't desire your retention once you upgrade.)

    However, I think it's time it's time to remove the rose colored glasses regarding senior FO QOL. People love to glamorize the "great senior FO QOL," but this is largely a romanticized myth. Such "great QOL" no longer exists.
    Very good point. 5+ years ago there were 3 on 4 off 17 day off 88+ hour lines, same three day all month. When I got the award last year I was holding those sweet 14 day off 72.25 hour semi commutable lines. It was certainly nice to get the days off I wanted but the paycheck (even with the bonus, and no OT) was garbage, and if I ever had carryover, say goodbye to those 14 days off.

    Rsv isn't great but it isn't the paradigm shift in QOL to the negative that I thought it would be.

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    It's not just about the money. Some want the PIC. It's not as easy as some think to get hired by mainlines. There are how many other pilots out there looking for the same job? So make $20k more as an FO? Or look at the big picture and try to improve my resume?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr mojo View Post
    It's not just about the money. Some want the PIC. It's not as easy as some think to get hired by mainlines. There are how many other pilots out there looking for the same job? So make $20k more as an FO? Or look at the big picture and try to improve my resume?
    Agreed.

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