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Thread: Celebrating Charlie Bucket?

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    Celebrating Charlie Bucket?


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    Not sure if it was sent by accident, but I got an email for "AA Employees" (oooo, DaCuj, you see that? "AA Employees!") to go see Charlie and the Chocolate Factory with an AA discount in NY.

    Not sure how Charlie has time to go to a factory that makes chocolate, he has his upgrade he has to start studying for!

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    Quote Originally Posted by snippercr View Post
    Not sure if it was sent by accident, but I got an email for "AA Employees" (oooo, DaCuj, you see that? "AA Employees!") to go see Charlie and the Chocolate Factory with an AA discount in NY.


    Not sure how Charlie has time to go to a factory that makes chocolate, he has his upgrade he has to start studying for!
    If you work at Envoy then you are an AA employee. AAG owns AA and Envoy. Same holding corporation. Same company. Of course if you are unhappy here then maybe you could go to MESA while Mr. Bucket upgrades no later than November and flows 2.5 years after that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    If you work at Envoy then you are an AA employee. AAG owns AA and Envoy. Same holding corporation. Same company. Of course if you are unhappy here then maybe you could go to MESA while Mr. Bucket upgrades no later than November and flows 2.5 years after that.
    100% WRONG. AAG is the parent corporation and AMERICAN AIRLINES and ENVOY AIRLINES are SEPARATE subsidiaries. Additionally, there is NO BASIS WHATSOEVER to assure anyone "Charlie Bucket" will flow in 2.5 years. He may, he may not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    100% WRONG. AAG is the parent corporation and AMERICAN AIRLINES and ENVOY AIRLINES are SEPARATE subsidiaries. Additionally, there is NO BASIS WHATSOEVER to assure anyone "Charlie Bucket" will flow in 2.5 years. He may, he may not.
    No. YOU are 100% wrong. As usual. There's this little thing called a CONTRACT that guarantees every single pilot at Envoy a seat at AA. And there are MINIMUM numbers that must be met per month in terms of how many Envoy pilots move to AA. If you can do basic math, which apparently you can't, no surprise there, then you can EASILY calculate projected flow times for each pilot. It's something that the noodle in your brain hasn't been able to wrap itself around quite obviously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    No. YOU are 100% wrong. As usual. There's this little thing called a CONTRACT that guarantees every single pilot at Envoy a seat at AA. And there are MINIMUM numbers that must be met per month in terms of how many Envoy pilots move to AA. If you can do basic math, which apparently you can't, no surprise there, then you can EASILY calculate projected flow times for each pilots.
    Classic "alternative facts". The Envoy pilots CBA nor any provision therin enjoins either the subsidiaries or the SEPARATE pilot groups. You're mixing apples and fish. No matter how often you wish upon this star, it won't shine the way you demand it should.

    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    It's something that the noodle in your brain hasn't been able to wrap itself around quite obviously.
    ...and once again, you demonstrate your immaturity by being incapable of discussion without resort to juvenile personal attack, but hey like I said, this has been your little cadres M.O. from the beginning. Generally, when people lose control of themselves so easily in this manner, it belies a subconscious, but fundamental lack of conviction in their assertions and the propensity for attack is really the internal conflict between your conscious and subcouncious manifesting itself outward to avoid internal confrontation.

    It's O.K., I understand the tumult you must be going through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    No. YOU are 100% wrong. As usual. There's this little thing called a CONTRACT that guarantees every single pilot at Envoy a seat at AA. And there are MINIMUM numbers that must be met per month in terms of how many Envoy pilots move to AA. If you can do basic math, which apparently you can't, no surprise there, then you can EASILY calculate projected flow times for each pilot. It's something that the noodle in your brain hasn't been able to wrap itself around quite obviously.
    How many get to transfer to AA if they stop hiring?

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    No one is an AA pilot until on property at AA. That is a simple concept-- not hard to understand. Just a question-- are the PP and later flow agreements part of the APA pilot agreement?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    No. YOU are 100% wrong. As usual. There's this little thing called a CONTRACT that guarantees every single pilot at Envoy a seat at AA. And there are MINIMUM numbers that must be met per month in terms of how many Envoy pilots move to AA. If you can do basic math, which apparently you can't, no surprise there, then you can EASILY calculate projected flow times for each pilot. It's something that the noodle in your brain hasn't been able to wrap itself around quite obviously.
    So, you acknowledge that the contract has a minimum number of flows per month. You also acknowledge that math can be utilized to use these flow numbers to come up with a projected flow time. Well Phin ol' boy, the contractual numbers and math yield a projected flow time of over 7 years for the latest new hire class. Not 5 years as you and Dacuj continue to lie about. Still waiting for either one of you to clarify how you come up with a 5 year flow for new hires. Because like you said, it's basic math. And the basic math says over 7 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Remudaflyer View Post
    No one is an AA pilot until on property at AA. That is a simple concept-- not hard to understand. Just a question-- are the PP and later flow agreements part of the APA pilot agreement?
    I just did a quick scan of the AA contract and I found a side letter dealing with Flow Thru.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl View Post
    I just did a quick scan of the AA contract and I found a side letter dealing with Flow Thru.
    Which says?

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    There are no references to any other pilots except those with numbers. I was signed May 5 1997. So nothing about PP.

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    None required in the APA CBA. AA/AAG decides who they hire/transfer, not the APA.
    ___________________________________

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
    None required in the APA CBA. AA/AAG decides who they hire/transfer, not the APA.
    The claim was that Envoy and American are the same company, which they most certainly are not. Separate airlines, separate pilot groups, separate CBA's. No, APA does not control who AA hires and yes, the Envoy CBA does have provisions of how and when Envoy pilots are eligible to become AA new-hires. The important point to remember is that a contractual provision is not the same as a guarantee. Let's face it, Envoy and its predecessor American Eagle, Inc. has proven that repeatedly past and present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    The claim was that Envoy and American are the same company, which they most certainly are not. Separate airlines, separate pilot groups, separate CBA's. No, APA does not control who AA hires and yes, the Envoy CBA does have provisions of how and when Envoy pilots are eligible to become AA new-hires. The important point to remember is that a contractual provision is not the same as a guarantee. Let's face it, Envoy and its predecessor American Eagle, Inc. has proven that repeatedly past and present.
    Oh boy. Here we go again. Do I constantly have to remind you that a contractual provision IS a guarantee?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Oh boy. Here we go again. Do I constantly have to remind you that a contractual provision IS a guarantee?
    In most cases a contract is a guarantee, but here, sometimes "the world has changed".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Oh boy. Here we go again. Do I constantly have to remind you that a contractual provision IS a guarantee?
    In your mind, I have no doubt. But present history proves that the Envoy pilots "contract" is willfully violated as evidenced by the grievances that are common. Past history proves that former Eagle pilots contracts (plural) were the subject of hundreds of grievances and disputes over the last few decades. Additionally, there are any number of outside issues that may slow or even cease the flow to AA, making your "guarantee" wishful thinking.

    However, if you want to bang flat spots in your head believing your own fake news, be my guest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOHICA View Post
    In most cases a contract is a guarantee, but here, sometimes "the world has changed".
    "Contracts" are little more the theoretical agreements and all too frequently they are broken or subject to different "interpretation" leading to dispute, hence the full workload of arbitrators and judges.

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    Contracts are made to be broken...... words lived by most CEOs especially Parker.

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    A guarantee insomuch that an arbitrator ruled against our black and white contractual reserve turnback grievance. That's how it goes with our contract....you win some, you lose some. Hell of a guarantee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    In your mind, I have no doubt. But present history proves that the Envoy pilots "contract" is willfully violated as evidenced by the grievances that are common. Past history proves that former Eagle pilots contracts (plural) were the subject of hundreds of grievances and disputes over the last few decades. Additionally, there are any number of outside issues that may slow or even cease the flow to AA, making your "guarantee" wishful thinking.

    However, if you want to bang flat spots in your head believing your own fake news, be my guest.
    Everyone knows that you are an anti-company cheerleader. What I can't figure out is why people who ACTUALLY WORK HERE have bought into this anti-company rhetoric that you are constantly spewing. They have the most to gain, read: flow, but are ardent in their anti company diatribe that you promote. And the flow is FAR, FAR and away ONE HUNDRED times better than it was in your old "American Eagle" days. It's actually written in the contract in black and white now. Not just something that you may or may not get when your upgrade comes up.

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