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Thread: Dacuj is right...😡

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    Quote Originally Posted by schmuck View Post
    So why don't you guys stop pussy footing around, speaking in riddles and just state what you're implying?
    Unlike the pilots, the company is not dumb enough to talk about negotiations on an internet forum...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    One list is absolutely in the cards. AAG is extremely innovative, and if they can find a way to move metal and thereby more passengers by combining seniority lists, you can bet it will happen.

    Like I said, a behemoth Envoy flying all heavy metal, 175 and 190s only comes as close as you can get to filling that 100 seat niche that AA so desperately needs to get to. If APA isn't interested in the scope change for massive wage increases, then yes, one list is a strong, strong possibility.

    And saying a "regional" doesn't fly 190s, well they have. Republic flew them. And Envoy isn't really a "regional." More of a national carrier.
    If AA wanted more 190s they would buy more 190s. They decided they weren't interested in expanding that fleet. Apparently it's not that great of an airliner. JetBlue doesn't seem thrilled with them either.

    As for your scope: AAG tried to throw a small scope change into the 2015 contract and almost torpedoed the whole thing. They quickly let it go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 360DD View Post
    If AA wanted more 190s they would buy more 190s. They decided they weren't interested in expanding that fleet. Apparently it's not that great of an airliner. JetBlue doesn't seem thrilled with them either.

    As for your scope: AAG tried to throw a small scope change into the 2015 contract and almost torpedoed the whole thing. They quickly let it go.
    How do you know what they think about the 190s? My sources contradict your statements. I'm glad you are so "in" over there that you know what the fleet plans are. Word is that more 190s are on the table. And you just happen to have a group flying the same type that you own that are a simple interdepartmental transfer away from being at AA anyway. Let's see, what other way could you get this qualified group flying these jets? Hmmmm, a single list maybe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by couch View Post
    Unlike the pilots, the company is not dumb enough to talk about negotiations on an internet forum...
    Negotiations ?

    I don't see any subject here that is being negotiated. Envoy ALPA or pilots have no input on AA scope anyway. Again, try not to get too worked up by one well known troll's wet dreams. He's floating this nonsense in the hope it lures a few more pilots to Envoy by word of mouth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    How do you know what they think about the 190s? My sources contradict your statements. I'm glad you are so "in" over there that you know what the fleet plans are. Word is that more 190s are on the table. And you just happen to have a group flying the same type that you own that are a simple interdepartmental transfer away from being at AA anyway. Let's see, what other way could you get this qualified group flying these jets? Hmmmm, a single list maybe?
    An Envoy employee lecturing AA pilots on what is happening at their airline. Priceless.

    A merger of AA and a Envoy would make all of Envoy's regional ops much more expensive and putting it at a major cost disadvantage against other regionals with which it competes. APA and more importantly AA pilots would have to approve of any mechanism to bring Envoy pilots into APA and onto the AA pilots seniority list outside of a merger and AA pilots have little appetite right now of solving managements self-inflicted problems. I think they're too busy tending to their cuts and bruises that their bankruptcy contract and abusive treatment are causing to worry about Envoy pilots. APA own their contract and only APA represented pilots on the AA seniority list can fly Group I aircraft.

    Everything you're wishing for requires the thumbs up from AA pilots and in this environment, I cannot see that happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    An Envoy employee lecturing AA pilots on what is happening at their airline. Priceless.

    A merger of AA and a Envoy would make all of Envoy's regional ops much more expensive and putting it at a major cost disadvantage against other regionals with which it competes. APA and more importantly AA pilots would have to approve of any mechanism to bring Envoy pilots into APA and onto the AA pilots seniority list outside of a merger and AA pilots have little appetite right now of solving managements self-inflicted problems. I think they're too busy tending to their cuts and bruises that their bankruptcy contract and abusive treatment are causing to worry about Envoy pilots. APA own their contract and only APA represented pilots on the AA seniority list can fly Group I aircraft.

    Everything you're wishing for requires the thumbs up from AA pilots and in this environment, I cannot see that happening.
    AA plots huh? Well, what do you have if the Envoy list is merged into AA? AA pilots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    AA plots huh? Well, what do you have if the Envoy list is merged into AA? AA pilots.
    You're not listening (which is no surprise).

    OK, let's try one more time........

    The only way the Envoy "list" can become part of the AA pilots list is by approval of APA/AA pilots. Not likely considering the current environment at AA. They could completely merge the airlines, but that makes Envoy neither fish (legacy) nor fowl (regional) and still operating smaller RJ's makes that problematic, to say the least. You seem to think a quick chit-chat and a few more dollars will grease that train rail and I think you're dreaming.

    Besides...........it's a good time to be an Envoy pilot, remember ?

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    Hey dacuj talking to yourself in a mirror is considered a source.

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    I've been hearing the One List rumor for over a decade. Back when I was an FO, the captains I flew with had been hearing the One List rumor since the 90s. It is 100% not happening. There is literally zero talk about this from ALPA, APA, Envoy management, American management, or AAG. Only you. Stop it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    How do you know what they think about the 190s? My sources contradict your statements. I'm glad you are so "in" over there that you know what the fleet plans are. Word is that more 190s are on the table. And you just happen to have a group flying the same type that you own that are a simple interdepartmental transfer away from being at AA anyway. Let's see, what other way could you get this qualified group flying these jets? Hmmmm, a single list maybe?
    AA has publicly announced that they are retiring the 190s by the end of 2019. It has nothing to do with "being in" I'm just reading the news.

    You are in over your head on this merged list/scope issue. Scope absolutely will not change and a merged list doesn't solve the problem you think it will solve. AA pilots fly the 190 and tacking Envoy pilots on the bottom of our list doesn't change anything.

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    Classic lounge...

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    Dunno what the deal is, but I can only see page one posts. I feel like I'm missing a lot of drama!

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    The one list talk is highly unlikely but not out if the realm of possibility. The 190s should stay at AA but as we all know the line between AA and Envoy is pretty blurred right now. We will just have to see what direction American wants to go with them.

    Regardless, you have a sweet 5 year flow to AA so no need to get bent out of shape over all of this one list talk. If you are Envoy, you're already at AA, you just don't have a transfer date yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    The one list talk is highly unlikely but not out if the realm of possibility. The 190s should stay at AA but as we all know the line between AA and Envoy is pretty blurred right now. We will just have to see what direction American wants to go with them.

    Regardless, you have a sweet 5 year flow to AA so no need to get bent out of shape over all of this one list talk. If you are Envoy, you're already at AA, you just don't have a transfer date yet.
    American Airlines will retire all 20 of its Embraer E190s and some of its Airbus A330s and Boeing 767s sooner than expected, American spokesman Casey Norton confirmed to me on Friday.

    The E190s, which once flew for US Airways, will disappear by the end of 2019, according to a message from Hector Adler, the carrier's vice president for flight service. The small fleet primarily flies as the American Shuttle, which operates flights between New York, Washington D.C. and Boston. American will be keeping the Shuttle brand, but it will use different aircraft.

    "The E190s have some expensive maintenance scheduled in the near future, so it makes sense to phase them out of the fleet in 2019," Adler said.

    http://www.briansumers.com/home/2016...a330s-and-767s

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    The one list talk is highly unlikely but not out if the realm of possibility. The 190s should stay at AA but as we all know the line between AA and Envoy is pretty blurred right now. We will just have to see what direction American wants to go with them.
    Agreed. Anything is possible in the future, especially considering that the pilot shortage will only get worse over time due to that candle being burned at both ends; Fewer prospective pilots entering the profession (if you can call it that compared to what it used to be) coupled with a substantial increase in retirements. That doesn't mean it's more likely in the near future.........or less for that matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    Regardless, you have a sweet 5 year flow to AA so no need to get bent out of shape over all of this one list talk. If you are Envoy, you're already at AA, you just don't have a transfer date yet.
    Based on a present snapshot and current math, one could now say a 5 year flow (or close to that) is possible for those hired recently, but since the same laws about the future also apply to this, that current math based snapshot has no guaranteed shelf life. Like the stock market, this reliably cyclical industry is overdue for a correction which could easily change that current math snapshot tomorrow. Even absent that, AAG could "change direction" (or have it changed for them) altering todays flow projections. Have to disagree with the "already at AA" part though. You aren't at AA until you ARE at AA.......as in on the payroll and AA pilot seniority list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 360DD View Post
    American Airlines will retire all 20 of its Embraer E190s and some of its Airbus A330s and Boeing 767s sooner than expected, American spokesman Casey Norton confirmed to me on Friday.

    The E190s, which once flew for US Airways, will disappear by the end of 2019, according to a message from Hector Adler, the carrier's vice president for flight service. The small fleet primarily flies as the American Shuttle, which operates flights between New York, Washington D.C. and Boston. American will be keeping the Shuttle brand, but it will use different aircraft.

    "The E190s have some expensive maintenance scheduled in the near future, so it makes sense to phase them out of the fleet in 2019," Adler said.

    http://www.briansumers.com/home/2016...a330s-and-767s
    I leave open the possibility another Group I aircraft could be acquired prior to these older birds being phased out. "End of 2019" is 2 1/2 years out which is an eternity in this rapidly evolving (and revolving) industry, especially for 20 airplanes. AAG seems barely able to plan itself consistently and reliably 6 months out and I can only wonder what different presently unidentified developments materialize for AA (and Eagle) by end of 2019. AAG's landscape may be completely different in ways we never anticipated by then.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 06-24-2017 at 08:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 360DD View Post
    American Airlines will retire all 20 of its Embraer E190s and some of its Airbus A330s and Boeing 767s sooner than expected, American spokesman Casey Norton confirmed to me on Friday.

    The E190s, which once flew for US Airways, will disappear by the end of 2019, according to a message from Hector Adler, the carrier's vice president for flight service. The small fleet primarily flies as the American Shuttle, which operates flights between New York, Washington D.C. and Boston. American will be keeping the Shuttle brand, but it will use different aircraft.

    "The E190s have some expensive maintenance scheduled in the near future, so it makes sense to phase them out of the fleet in 2019," Adler said.

    http://www.briansumers.com/home/2016...a330s-and-767s
    The date on this is over a year old, and I seem to remember seeing a memo changing some of this info shortly after Kirby left. The 333s staying around longer was the biggest point I remember.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersdawg View Post
    The date on this is over a year old, and I seem to remember seeing a memo changing some of this info shortly after Kirby left. The 333s staying around longer was the biggest point I remember.
    Yes I know but it's the latest official word on the 190s. So far they haven't changed their decision to get rid of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinsFan View Post
    The one list talk is highly unlikely but not out if the realm of possibility. The 190s should stay at AA but as we all know the line between AA and Envoy is pretty blurred right now. We will just have to see what direction American wants to go with them.

    Regardless, you have a sweet 5 year flow to AA so no need to get bent out of shape over all of this one list talk. If you are Envoy, you're already at AA, you just don't have a transfer date yet.
    I would say the line is pretty much non existent. Our paychecks are from AAG who owns us outright along with American. We fly American registered aircraft. Our uniforms are the same. We have co-bases with AA in four cities with more to come. Our flow sends us to AA with a simple department transfer. I could go on but you get the picture.

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