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Thread: 6/19/17 Class Drp

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    AAG could negotiate raises at AA in return for moving the 190s to Envoy. We already have the training program in place and it's a common type. It's obvious no one over there wants to fly it as it goes so junior. It's a win for both sides and AAG.
    This will never happen. Ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Oh, so NOW you are buying the flow through instead of bashing it and saying it's going to come to a screaming halt or become a trickle through.
    I've been in record (repeatedly) stating Envoy will flow at minimum rate so long as they have new-hires AND nothing unforeseen forces them to alter it. "Unforseen" could be anything from consolidation, fragmentation or economic and/or geopolitical events leading them to Force Majeure. That being said, if you read my post (which you obviously didn't), I simply described what YOU would have to do to alter your snake oil strategy of luring the uninformed into your lair in such a situation. I then described an obvious reality of such a situation occurred, but then qualified its chances as somewhere between slim and none.

    I realize it matters little what your detractors say as you reinvent that info to suit your demented agenda.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    AA continues to grow like gangbusters internationally while Envoy explodes domestically and eventually becomes a total behemoth with a huge stable of 175/190 aircraft.
    That just doesn't add up to me. If AA transfers its domestic flying to Envoy and allows them to use the 190s to do it you would see a reduction in the total number of seats at AA. Even if there was an explosion of international growth at AA. How about we let AA do our 175 flying and then we can really expand the AA pilot group and get more people on this side of the fence quicker.

    IMG_2090.jpg
    Last edited by Jdflyer; 06-22-2017 at 09:26 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Totally wrong. Just another one of your dip***t theories. Transferring the 190s to Envoy could actually work to the benefit of all pilot groups and AAG as well. Think pay increases at AA and Envoy, more flexibility for AAG to strategically place these birds with more 175s just around the corner. AA continues to grow like gangbusters internationally while Envoy explodes domestically and eventually becomes a total behemoth with a huge stable of 175/190 aircraft. More seats are created at AA for flow via growth and HUGE numbers of upgrades at Envoy likely bringing upgrade down to mere months after hire. 100 plus new hires coming into Envoy monthly with flow continuing unabated. Sounds like the best case scenario to me.
    Jesus......your state of delusion knows no bounds. Growth at AA ? If you look at the numbers, the AA fleet is shrinking and Internationally, outsourcing is the goal. To wit, AA has deferred orders of both the A350 and 787. Emasculating a large segment of present mainline domestic ops only leads to contraction/stagnation at AA depending on retirement rate and any new additional outsourcing. AAG doesn't really want to be in the airline business or at least the airline employee business, but in the ticket selling business via outsourcing and code-sharing.

    I think your scenarios resemble that of chronic hash smokers listening to too much Deep Purple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdflyer View Post
    That just doesn't add up to me. If AA transfers its domestic flying to Envoy and allows them to use the 190s to do it you would see a reduction in the total number of seats at AA. Even if there was an explosion of international growth at AA. How about we let AA do our 175 flying and then we can really expand the AA pilot group and get more people on this side of the fence quicker.

    IMG_2090.jpg
    In order for any of this to occur, AA pilots would have to agree to the biggest scope concession (100+ seaters at regionals) since the advent of the RJ. In effect, they would be green-lighting MAINLINE aircraft at the regional level. Putting aside the suicidal ramifications to their own careers (along with those who want to flow in the future), the political ramifications among their peers at Delta and a United would make AA pilots and APA phariahs in the industry as if they allowed this, it would mean the other carriers would have no choice but to strong arm their own pilots for competitive equality. I cannot see AA pilots commiting this type of Seppuku by essentially lighting the fuse of what would destroy those careers.

    It's good we see dacuj show his colors here as no sane Envoy line pilot would advocate this nonsense with the exception of perhaps some who are very senior and at Envoy for the duration. Since we know dacuj is NOT in this demographic, that leaves only one source that would advocate this scenario; Someone in management or one who is perfecting his lapdog status until achieving such a position by throwing line pilots under the bus to accelerate his ascent. Dacuj is virtually certain to be the latter and so anyone who had any doubts about what he is about, IMO no longer has any doubt.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 06-22-2017 at 09:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    In order for any of this to occur, AA pilots would have to agree to the biggest scope concession (100+ seaters at regionals) since the advent of the RJ. In effect, they would be green-lighting MAINLINE aircraft at the regional level. Putting aside the suicidal ramifications to their own careers (along with those who want to flow in the future), the political ramifications among their peers at Delta and a United would make AA pilots and APA phariahs in the industry as if they allowed this, it would mean the other carriers would have no choice but to strong arm their own pilots for competitive equality. I cannot see AA pilots commiting this type of Seppuku by essentially lighting the fuse of what would destroy those careers.

    It's good we see dacuj show his colors here as no sane Envoy line pilot would advocate this nonsense with the exception of perhaps some who are very senior and at Envoy for the duration. Since we know dacuj is NOT in this demographic, that leaves only one source that would advocate this scenario; Someone in management or one who is perfecting his lapdog status until achieving such a position by throwing line pilots under the bus to accelerate his ascent. Dacuj is virtually certain to be the latter and so anyone who had any doubts about what he is about, IMO no longer has any doubt.
    Spot on, good sir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Totally wrong. Just another one of your dip***t theories. Transferring the 190s to Envoy could actually work to the benefit of all pilot groups and AAG as well. Think pay increases at AA and Envoy, more flexibility for AAG to strategically place these birds with more 175s just around the corner. AA continues to grow like gangbusters internationally while Envoy explodes domestically and eventually becomes a total behemoth with a huge stable of 175/190 aircraft. More seats are created at AA for flow via growth and HUGE numbers of upgrades at Envoy likely bringing upgrade down to mere months after hire. 100 plus new hires coming into Envoy monthly with flow continuing unabated. Sounds like the best case scenario to me.
    What I picture when Dacuj speaks
    IMG_0121.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Totally wrong. Just another one of your dip***t theories. Transferring the 190s to Envoy could actually work to the benefit of all pilot groups and AAG as well. Think pay increases at AA and Envoy, more flexibility for AAG to strategically place these birds with more 175s just around the corner. AA continues to grow like gangbusters internationally while Envoy explodes domestically and eventually becomes a total behemoth with a huge stable of 175/190 aircraft. More seats are created at AA for flow via growth and HUGE numbers of upgrades at Envoy likely bringing upgrade down to mere months after hire. 100 plus new hires coming into Envoy monthly with flow continuing unabated. Sounds like the best case scenario to me.
    This is where you are really off your rocker. The 190s are going away. Scope is not changing. That is the final answer. No use discussing it any further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 360DD View Post
    This is where you are really off your rocker. The 190s are going away. Scope is not changing. That is the final answer. No use discussing it any further.
    I was told that the 190 departure has been delayed by 6-8 months. We all hope scope doesn't change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl View Post
    Just stay away from the 190, unless you live or want to fly out of PHL.
    The guys I know on the 190 are enjoying the seniority and extra pay. FWIW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr mojo View Post
    I was told that the 190 departure has been delayed by 6-8 months. We all hope scope doesn't change.
    It doesn't matter. They aren't getting more of them (they only have 20 190s) and I can assure you scope will not be relaxed. 15,000 AA pilots are in no mood for that. Even the large RJ manufacturers are concerned that scope will not be relaxed at any of the big 3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr mojo View Post
    The guys I know on the 190 are enjoying the seniority and extra pay. FWIW

    I looked at 190 CA but it's not worth it. Those are the same schedules I flew at Eagle. Pretty much the same money as a group 2 FO line holder.
    Last edited by 360DD; 06-23-2017 at 08:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Totally wrong. Just another one of your dip***t theories. Transferring the 190s to Envoy could actually work to the benefit of all pilot groups and AAG as well. Think pay increases at AA and Envoy, more flexibility for AAG to strategically place these birds with more 175s just around the corner. AA continues to grow like gangbusters internationally while Envoy explodes domestically and eventually becomes a total behemoth with a huge stable of 175/190 aircraft. More seats are created at AA for flow via growth and HUGE numbers of upgrades at Envoy likely bringing upgrade down to mere months after hire. 100 plus new hires coming into Envoy monthly with flow continuing unabated. Sounds like the best case scenario to me.
    So where is this "growing like gangbusters" for the past two years AA has been deferring wide body orders. Yes there have been some growth in Intl but nothing near what you think.

    Your BS about AE flying all the Domestic routes is old news that has been coming up for over 20 years.

    Fake spin. You need to stick things you know like how many pilots are hired at AE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Totally wrong. Just another one of your dip***t theories. Transferring the 190s to Envoy could actually work to the benefit of all pilot groups and AAG as well. Think pay increases at AA and Envoy, more flexibility for AAG to strategically place these birds with more 175s just around the corner. AA continues to grow like gangbusters internationally while Envoy explodes domestically and eventually becomes a total behemoth with a huge stable of 175/190 aircraft. More seats are created at AA for flow via growth and HUGE numbers of upgrades at Envoy likely bringing upgrade down to mere months after hire. 100 plus new hires coming into Envoy monthly with flow continuing unabated. Sounds like the best case scenario to me.
    I shouldn't respond because its clear you are a troll. But if the above ever happened I promise I would quit and probably leave the career for good. What you propose would be horrible for pilots as their flow/career advancement gets delayed even longer. Hopefully what you propose never happens.

    Meanwhile, you're probably laughing into your pop over how riled up you made people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravobridge View Post
    I shouldn't respond because its clear you are a troll. But if the above ever happened I promise I would quit and probably leave the career for good. What you propose would be horrible for pilots as their flow/career advancement gets delayed even longer. Hopefully what you propose never happens.

    Meanwhile, you're probably laughing into your pop over how riled up you made people.
    I don't think anyone should get riled up over this. It's been floated before and I'm sure will again. What was appropriate at least IMO, was rebuttal/correction and that has occurred. Dacuj likes to throw grenades into this forum (and other ones too) as it brings him attention and he likes that. I suppose he might believe it validates his philosophies, but all it really does is further damage an already mangled credibility. Sure, he's good at parroting info that others tell him (and insulting those that disagree or refute it), but that's about it. He's good for entertainment and I think that's the best way to see him.

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    Well that escalated quickly.

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    Envoy shouldn't even be flying 175s. Why the **** would we want 190s?

    Awesome, let's outsource the entire domestic operation to envoy! $80 per hour capped for life! Hooray!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 360DD View Post
    I looked at 190 CA but it's not worth it. Those are the same schedules I flew at Eagle. Pretty much the same money as a group 2 FO line holder.
    1. True for some, but I did hear that an old timer Eagle guy type just moved from Group 2 Fo to 190 CA
    2. They say this isn't as true anymore. Apparently Rah took some of the short segments from the 190.
    3. True

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr mojo View Post
    1. True for some, but I did hear that an old timer Eagle guy type just moved from Group 2 Fo to 190 CA
    2. They say this isn't as true anymore. Apparently Rah took some of the short segments from the 190.
    3. True
    I believe the old timer in question did it in order to get out of his lockin. (They don't hold you to a lockin if you upgrade)
    No the schedules aren't exactly the same as Eagle but close enough. I'm used to one leg a day, two at the most.

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    That sounds like a good gig. How many days a month do you work?

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