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Thread: Spirit cancel flights, lack of pilots

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    Spirit cancel flights, lack of pilots


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    http://wsvn.com/news/local/9-spirit-...-pilot-strike/

    When asked to explain the cancellations, Vignieri said the employees she talked to said some of the airline’s pilots had gone on strike.
    Spirit officials, however, denied there was a strike. In a statement, spokesperson Stephen Schuller wrote, “To be clear, there is no strike. Some flights were canceled due to crew availability.

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    Spirit only have JM for reserves, and in a memo from the union the airline blame cancellations because pilots refuse to pick up OT on their days off.

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    sounds like here
    Sir, can I have another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttot View Post
    Spirit only have JM for reserves, and in a memo from the union the airline blame cancellations because pilots refuse to pick up OT on their days off.
    Perhaps Spirit management will throw an 8% pay rate increase to the pilots in the hope they will fly more on their days off ?

    If they do, it won't be because of altruism, but because they'd believe it would generate more revenue which would more then pay for the raises.

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    Gave a Spirit guy a ride to work yesterday, said the same thing, they are all NOT picking up OT to spite the company with their ongoing negotiations.

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    more power to the spirit pilots. summer upon us and no ot pickup, let the good times roll.
    Sir, can I have another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inky13 View Post
    Gave a Spirit guy a ride to work yesterday, said the same thing, they are all NOT picking up OT to spite the company with their ongoing negotiations.
    .
    Carriers have successfully gotten injunctions against unions for pilots not picking up OT because they can prove the status quo has been effected.

    Speaking of cancellations - how bout dat Mesa? All of those AA operated flights are either Crew availability or Maintenance. https://flightaware.com/live/fleet/ASH/cancelled (AA operated flights are just CRJ)

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    Quote Originally Posted by snippercr View Post
    .
    Carriers have successfully gotten injunctions against unions for pilots not picking up OT because they can prove the status quo has been effected.
    This is true. No OT campaigns at the direction of the union are essentially illegal job actions. This is well known in this day and age - if the Spirit campaign is word of mouth and has zero paper trail I wonder how that would play. A company cannot force its employees to work OT. Guessing the legal JR mans would be going through the roof though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersdawg View Post
    This is true. No OT campaigns at the direction of the union are essentially illegal job actions. This is well known in this day and age - if the Spirit campaign is word of mouth and has zero paper trail I wonder how that would play. A company cannot force its employees to work OT. Guessing the legal JR mans would be going through the roof though.
    .
    The company would still go after the union citing that OT pick up levels are lower than normal - in previous cases even where there was no union encouragement to not pick up OT (even though that would never happen, no legal depart would ever approve that), an injunction was filed and the courts ordered the union to address the issue with the pilots. I dont remember if a company can go after a specific person (say a person who historically always picks up OT and then just stops) but it is definitely hard to "make" a person work but they can order a union to say just that.

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    amr went after apa exactly as the scenario you outlined
    Sir, can I have another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    amr went after apa exactly as the scenario you outlined
    Do you have some data to back this up ? I DO recall AMR going after Eagle pilots and ALPA this way years ago. Spirit pilots CBA may be more restrictive then Envoy pilots regarding resssignment junior manning and min days off leaving their management SOL in the ability to force pilots to worki on days off.

    I think some Envoy pilots assume since they are trampled over casually with no resistance, all other pilot groups are similarly treated. At present, Parker cannot force AA pilots to fly to much because of IMAX which prevents pilots from flying too much. I'll bet Spirit pilots have solid ground to hold onto days off if they do choose.

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    How did the no Float campaign avoid an injunction? Isn't it a similar idea to a no OT campaign?

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    I love how this company can cry to the courts about no one picking up OT, then completely blanket deny return days that were an arbitration award with no problem.

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    "Those return days you got back in the arbitration because we thought we could pull that shadiness? Yeaaaaaah, we're going to have to go ahead and deny those for, ummm, ever, due to, ummm, staffing. So if you'd just go ahead and not bother submitting requests that'd be grrrreat."
    Warlord of the crewroom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersdawg View Post
    How did the no Float campaign avoid an injunction? Isn't it a similar idea to a no OT campaign?
    Urging pilots to take their contractual vacation instead of cashing it in later is nothing more than telling them to follow the contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRaven View Post
    Urging pilots to take their contractual vacation instead of cashing it in later is nothing more than telling them to follow the contract.
    It's interesting when an airline management willfully violates the provisions of a CBA and then seeks to punish pilots for following the provisions of same CBA (the cockamamie argument pilots must be forced to work X number of extra hours or days simply because they may have in the past). They go to a judge and argue up is really down and left is really right (and vice versa). APA has every expectation that every provision of their CBA is valid and cannot be unilaterally redefined by management simply because management has put themselves in a jam and if their CBA allows pilots not to float, that's a hard won contractual right. Obviously, a different philosophy is in play at regionals whose unions are more flaccid and capitulatory when defending their own contracts.

    At any rate, no one would win if AAG declared war on their pilots and the stock value would plunge under such an atmosphere.

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    Ha! Spirit just got a Court Order agaist it's pilots.
    Affective today pilots are prohibited from "refusing to accept voluntary of overtime flying"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttot View Post
    Ha! Spirit just got a Court Order agaist it's pilots.
    Affective today pilots are prohibited from "refusing to accept voluntary of overtime flying"
    Really ? Haven't read the details, but this sounds like this is exactly the B.S. I was talking about. I'll have to read the specifics to see why Spirit management can force pilots to fly against their will. Must be something contractual, but in the end, Spirit will lose more then they gain. I must admit, you seemed pleased another management might have made a mockery out of a CBA.

    ....... and dopey pilots wonder why they are their own worst enemies.

    Update : OK, it sounds like there cannot be a coordinated effort to advocate not flying voluntary additional flying nor harassing pilots who do. I can see that. Their CBA must offer little protection, but suppose a pilot has flown X hours of additional flying in the past and now it's summer, the kids are out, the weather is nice and social activities are more prevalent. NO pilot should be forced to fly the same amount to bail out the company simply because they are needed and did do in the past. Many pilots might fly more in the colder months, when school is in, etc. EXACTLY because of that reason and any pilot should be free to enjoy his scheduled days off if contractually protected. I heard ALPA national is more interested in not expending $$$ in defense and thus will toss the Spirit pilots under the bus. Sad, but predictable if so. That would explain why they may be fleeing like frightened Chihuahuas as the have a tendency to do. ALPA is a profit-oriented business and just like airlines, that is how they tend to act.
    Last edited by Beagleboy; 05-09-2017 at 05:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttot View Post
    Ha! Spirit just got a Court Order agaist it's pilots.
    Affective today pilots are prohibited from "refusing to accept voluntary of overtime flying"
    What the hell does this even mean? They can't refuse flying that the choose to do voluntarily? Or does this mean they can't refuse involuntarily assigned overtime flying (JM)? The sentence doesn't really make sense.

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