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Thread: 7/20/2015

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF View Post
    All these new hires and upgrades yet we are still metering the flow to it's minimum. JMing to the maximum.
    They know that as time goes on, the supply of regional new-hires will only get more perilous and therefore will not squander their resources by flowing more then required. As legacy retirements ramp up, many Envoy pilots will get opportunities before their flow and outside attrition will almost certainly increase. They also have to demonstrate low costs and that means wringing the labor dish rag (that's you) out as much as possible. Once the situation peaks, Delta and United will have no choice but to improve their legacy transfer offers to that of AA and lateral poaching will cease overnight. The outside up and comers which will only fill a minority of the seats that will need to be filled will then have several options for a "back up" in case the carrier of their choice doesn't materialize.

    As for the upgrade time, it's good old Charlie got the bid, but as others besides me have said, it's not an upgrade until your paycheck reflects it or you're putting flight time in your logbook under PIC. More importantly though, which needs to be repeated is that NO ONE can promise the future and so just because pilot X upgrades (or flows) today at Y years, that is not a valid timeline for any subsequent pilot to meet or exceed that.

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    If you pass on upgrade does that affect your seniority when you do decide to upgrade ?

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    No. If you pass on upgrade and 100 people below you upgrade, then when you upgrade you are still above of those same 100 people.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by copycopy View Post
    No. If you pass on upgrade and 100 people below you upgrade, then when you upgrade you are still above of those same 100 people.
    This is why it's risky (from a QOL point of view) to upgrade as soon as you can hold it.

    You can put in your time on RSV, be on the verge of holding a line, and... poof! 20 people appear on the list who are senior to you and push you down. Some may think it's worth it, but it's a miserable feeling.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    They know that as time goes on, the supply of regional new-hires will only get more perilous and therefore will not squander their resources by flowing more then required. As legacy retirements ramp up, many Envoy pilots will get opportunities before their flow and outside attrition will almost certainly increase. They also have to demonstrate low costs and that means wringing the labor dish rag (that's you) out as much as possible. Once the situation peaks, Delta and United will have no choice but to improve their legacy transfer offers to that of AA and lateral poaching will cease overnight. The outside up and comers which will only fill a minority of the seats that will need to be filled will then have several options for a "back up" in case the carrier of their choice doesn't materialize.

    As for the upgrade time, it's good old Charlie got the bid, but as others besides me have said, it's not an upgrade until your paycheck reflects it or you're putting flight time in your logbook under PIC. More importantly though, which needs to be repeated is that NO ONE can promise the future and so just because pilot X upgrades (or flows) today at Y years, that is not a valid timeline for any subsequent pilot to meet or exceed that.
    They are REQUIRED to flow 50% of each class (or 35% for a few months)!!!

    Metering to 25 or 30 is not supposed to be because they see the pilots as an asset and don't want to lose them. They will, of course, never admit it, but if this is what they are doing then they are in blatant violation of the agreement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anshu View Post
    They are REQUIRED to flow 50% of each class (or 35% for a few months)!!!

    Metering to 25 or 30 is not supposed to be because they see the pilots as an asset and don't want to lose them. They will, of course, never admit it, but if this is what they are doing then they are in blatant violation of the agreement.
    .......and this management team has never violated your CBA before ? I don't think they see pilots as assets. If they did, you'd be compensated and treated like young professionals at other corporations. What has their reaction been even when you are starting to become a scarce commodity ? Target minimum outlay to strategically specific places while not lifting a finger to change their philosophy as a whole. You are simply cogs in their machine which they will oil to the minimum degree necessary to keep the machine running. Sadly, some in your union are enabling them and it is you as a group that suffers.

    You can be sure Envoy will NOT flow itself out of existence and in fact, the flipside of convincing AAG Envoy can swallow a lot more flying only puts Envoy at more perilous risk when inevitably they can't keep being AA's regional pacman. Envoy management will be loathe to recede and will then likely rationalize doing whatever it takes to maintain its ravenous appetite. For Envoy pilots it may just be a classic case of 'be careful for what you wish for' as rapid growth now that makes it more likely to be unsustainable in the future makes all the intoxication with this growth a possible Pyrrhic victory that ultimately will be paid for with a bill that will come due in the future labeled "flow-thru".

  7. #27
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    Tricky dick already told everyone 25 a month. They don't have to give a reason for a meter. We have 70 hour lines and Jm ing pilots. Tough to claim understaffing when your line pilots fly well under far limits. They do it however. Like when they threaten to cancel vacation. Don't really need a reason.

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