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Thread: Class Drop - 04/10/17

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    Class Drop - 04/10/17


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    Ok all of you guys here who still have the wool over their eyes. From today's class here's the drop:

    23 LGA/ORD 145
    8 ORD 700
    1 DFW 175

    32 total new hires today.

    And yes, the good times....keep on rolling here at Envoy. Big class numbers equals more CA slots, more airplanes, more flying and more FLOW!

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    Denied 3 of my PVDs. 10 days off this month. Contractual grievance in process. DFW operation in the $hit. I can see just fine.

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    What the heck is class DROP? Is that to mean breakdown?
    More planes, let's see 47 crj's and at least 40 e145's total 87 aircraft will be or have transferred to psa and pdt. For growth You need all the options on the e175 to be exercised and you the would have grown the total aircraft on property by 3. This would take 5 years.

    Your right more flying is coming to mesa, skw and republic while envoy shrinks.

    How many did envoy hire last year and how many of these same pilots are still here, that's the question inquiring minds would like answered. This is a trick question be forewarned when you answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    What the heck is class DROP? Is that to mean breakdown?
    More planes, let's see 47 crj's and at least 40 e145's total 87 aircraft will be or have transferred to psa and pdt. For growth You need all the options on the e175 to be exercised and you the would have grown the total aircraft on property by 3. This would take 5 years.

    Your right more flying is coming to mesa, skw and republic while envoy shrinks.

    How many did envoy hire last year and how many of these same pilots are still here, that's the question inquiring minds would like answered. This is a trick question be forewarned when you answer.
    Ah yes, our resident "whiner in chief." So glad you could join the conversation. Did somebody pee in your Wheaties this morning.....AGAIN for the thousandth time? Do you want to flow? Do you even work here? I can't imagine so with the negativity that comes out of you like a firehose.

    Envoy is having NO TROUBLE ATTRACTING APPLICANTS. Plenty of people want to work here and they have great attitudes. You've already been given the keys to the Ferrari (flow) so I cannot figure out WHY you are here every single day griping, beotching, ranting, moaning and complaining endlessly. Get a life dude. Maybe you should try I.T. or the medical field.

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    Sorry. I pissed in his Wheaties. Mi aculpa. Though to be honest I thought it was frosted flakes. Didn't think he would notice.

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    I am happy that I could help two prospective applicants chose skywest over here. Since they have a chance to have a good qol faster upgrade and live in base. I figured that trumped doing a cross country commute to LGA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    . You've already been given the keys to the Ferrari (flow) .
    Damn dude you got a Ferrari. I'm still driving around in my 71' Pinto. Only bad thing is the company keeps trying to back door me.

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    "Keys to the Ferrari"
    SMDH...

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    Once again, 30 plus people in class is good to hear.

    In this case it's kill the messenger not the message. He's over the top but I'm still glad someone's posting the class totals and we are continuing to hire.

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    Agree. But schmucks been doing it for months on EL
    Last edited by Pinkvisual; 04-10-2017 at 01:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Ok all of you guys here who still have the wool over their eyes. From today's class here's the drop:

    23 LGA/ORD 145
    8 ORD 700
    1 DFW 175

    32 total new hires today.

    And yes, the good times....keep on rolling here at Envoy. Big class numbers equals more CA slots, more airplanes, more flying and more FLOW!
    Yes, 32 is a good number. But where are those big classes you were talking about that would get us over 100/month? I guess we'll see those kind of numbers when we see the company start flowing 40/month like you said they were going to do. Remind me, when were they going to start flowing 40/month? Oh yeah, January. Hm...maybe they're just slow to get the ball rolling on that. Don't worry, I'll wait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schmuck View Post
    Yes, 32 is a good number. But where are those big classes you were talking about that would get us over 100/month? I guess we'll see those kind of numbers when we see the company start flowing 40/month like you said they were going to do. Remind me, when were they going to start flowing 40/month? Oh yeah, January. Hm...maybe they're just slow to get the ball rolling on that. Don't worry, I'll wait.
    You don't understand. Those are projections. Projections are like when I was a wet-behind-the ears flight instructor, and my boss promised that we were getting King Airs and twin Cessnas, and I was going to get to fly them. He ended up skipping town because the police were looking for him for some sort of fraud. Projections are great because they get naive pilots in the door.
    Last edited by 360DD; 04-10-2017 at 01:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Ah yes, our resident "whiner in chief." So glad you could join the conversation. Did somebody pee in your Wheaties this morning.....AGAIN for the thousandth time? Do you want to flow? Do you even work here? I can't imagine so with the negativity that comes out of you like a firehose.

    Envoy is having NO TROUBLE ATTRACTING APPLICANTS. Plenty of people want to work here and they have great attitudes. You've already been given the keys to the Ferrari (flow) so I cannot figure out WHY you are here every single day griping, beotching, ranting, moaning and complaining endlessly. Get a life dude. Maybe you should try I.T. or the medical field.
    30 a month is great. This spew is not. I would love an answer to his questions as it will affect the ability to flow pilots in the future.

    1. You mentioned more aircraft coming. What is the predicted net gain for aircraft for 2017, 18, 19, and 20?
    2. Is the entire flight file for Envoy trending in the positive direction? What is the percentage gain year over year?
    3. Out of all new hire pilots in the past 12 months, what percentage:
    A. Successful completed training and are now line pilots?
    B. How many of those pilots that successfully completed training are still here?

    Thanks for the info

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdflyer View Post
    30 a month is great. This spew is not. I would love an answer to his questions as it will affect the ability to flow pilots in the future.

    1. You mentioned more aircraft coming. What is the predicted net gain for aircraft for 2017, 18, 19, and 20?
    2. Is the entire flight file for Envoy trending in the positive direction? What is the percentage gain year over year?
    3. Out of all new hire pilots in the past 12 months, what percentage:
    A. Successful completed training and are now line pilots?
    B. How many of those pilots that successfully completed training are still here?

    Thanks for the info
    Those questions will never be answered by Dacuj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Ok all of you guys here who still have the wool over their eyes. From today's class here's the drop:

    23 LGA/ORD 145
    8 ORD 700
    1 DFW 175

    32 total new hires today.

    And yes, the good times....keep on rolling here at Envoy. Big class numbers equals more CA slots, more airplanes, more flying and more FLOW!
    As others state, this isn't a bad thing, but it has nothing to do with how accurate or likely any of them or any one else for that matter when or even will flow to AA. Most of these pilots came to Envoy on hope if it's for the flow and are essentially gambling hope will pay off (not unlike those before them). They have no certain idea if it will and you shouldn't conflate hope with certainty. Same thing could be said for moths converging on a light source in the belief it will provide something beyond its meaningless appearance. It may be, but it may just be a place they fly to and occupy waiting for something to happen that won't. Even if it does happen, the fact 10, 30 or 80/month come to Envoy will not guarantee any timing of the flow event.

    To balance things out, how many aircraft is Envoy slated to have 2 or 3 years from now ? How many F/O's are completing training through IOE to the line every calendar month ? Pilots flock to promises like hookers to busy streets. In the past, it was the "quick upgrade", but many, many got burned. Don't get me wrong, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, but hope is not certainty or any type of guarantee.

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    Hey, dacuj your not answering the question being asked, why is That?

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    Company will meter the flow. 25 a month. There intention is to grow. More 140/145s. After destroying and shrinking they want to grow. At 30 a month. Growth seems impossible. Think more JMs bad schedules. Company doesn't want to play ball. However a 2500 pilot airline with flow seems highly unlikely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF View Post
    Company will meter the flow. 25 a month. There intention is to grow. More 140/145s. After destroying and shrinking they want to grow. At 30 a month. Growth seems impossible. Think more JMs bad schedules. Company doesn't want to play ball. However a 2500 pilot airline with flow seems highly unlikely.
    Seems really tough to grow. If they plan to divest entirely of CRJ's and scope limits them on 175's, all that's left is 140/145's which have a limited shelf life and they are dumping the 145's too (keep 50 until they are toast ?). As they move out 145's and temporarily replace some of those with 140's it sounds more like burning the furniture to heat the house. Unless some big Hail Mary is in the works, it sounds more like controlled contraction to a smaller airline (eventually all E1 175's) then is now or possibly consolidation with (or acquisition by) another carrier which would indicate the possibility of diluted slower flow.

    In the interim I agree they will flow at minimum required rate, at least until their viability is threatened and then I think all bets are off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdflyer View Post
    30 a month is great. This spew is not. I would love an answer to his questions as it will affect the ability to flow pilots in the future.

    1. You mentioned more aircraft coming. What is the predicted net gain for aircraft for 2017, 18, 19, and 20?
    2. Is the entire flight file for Envoy trending in the positive direction? What is the percentage gain year over year?
    3. Out of all new hire pilots in the past 12 months, what percentage:
    A. Successful completed training and are now line pilots?
    B. How many of those pilots that successfully completed training are still here?

    Thanks for the info
    Currently, Section 15 is open at the negotiating table. The satellite base LOA is dead and the company seemingly wants to open multiple permanent bases over the next 2-3 years, but they want fewer training cycles hence the negotiations.

    In the end, you can gather that AAG wants to position Envoy, PSA and PDT to take up the slack to non WO contract carriers. Everyone is aware that the staffing issue is really going to hit hard in the next couple of years and if the negotiations are successful, it's likely that multiple bases would open up and that Envoy would look like a completely different airline in 3 years. Like I said, take a look a 2 or 3 old legacy AA bases and a couple of Air Wisky bases and there you have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Currently, Section 15 is open at the negotiating table. The satellite base LOA is dead and the company seemingly wants to open multiple permanent bases over the next 2-3 years, but they want fewer training cycles hence the negotiations.

    In the end, you can gather that AAG wants to position Envoy, PSA and PDT to take up the slack to non WO contract carriers. Everyone is aware that the staffing issue is really going to hit hard in the next couple of years and if the negotiations are successful, it's likely that multiple bases would open up and that Envoy would look like a completely different airline in 3 years. Like I said, take a look a 2 or 3 old legacy AA bases and a couple of Air Wisky bases and there you have it.
    So you're saying we're looking at getting LAX and MIA back? With what equipment and staffed by whom? Our reserves are zeroed out daily and JM's are handed out everyday like candy. We can barely staff what we have and if you haven't noticed the only base anybody really wants is DFW. ORD is a base in name only at this point because closing it outright wouldn't look good to prospective new hires.

    Also, I believe Whisky has 3 bases currently - PHL, DCA and ORF. Piedmont is already in PHL, I believe PoSA was awarded DCA not too long ago, so the leaves us with...ORF?

    Dacuj, if you really are a pilot for this company why don't you work it out with your managers and come back out on the line for 6 months to enjoy these schedules and report back to management on morale? I'm sure they'd love the first hand reports.
    Warlord of the crewroom.

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