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Thread: Envoy fleet...

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    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    Envoy fleet...


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    As of March 1, 2017, the Envoy Air fleet consists of the following aircraft:

    Bombardier CRJ 700 (35)
    Transfer of remaining fleet to PSA will resume April 2017.

    Embraer ERJ 140 (6)
    6 in active service. To be phased out. Most are stored at Mathis Field in "Near-Flying" condition on month to month lease of ramp space.

    Embraer ERJ-145 (74)
    24 to be transferred to Piedmont Airlines.

    Embraer E174 (33)
    Deliveries began November 2015. Includes 90 options.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envoy_Air
    I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    As of March 1, 2017, the Envoy Air fleet consists of the following aircraft:

    Bombardier CRJ 700 (35)
    Transfer of remaining fleet to PSA will resume April 2017.

    Embraer ERJ 140 (6)
    6 in active service. To be phased out. Most are stored at Mathis Field in "Near-Flying" condition on month to month lease of ramp space.

    Embraer ERJ-145 (74)
    24 to be transferred to Piedmont Airlines.

    Embraer E174 (33)
    Deliveries began November 2015. Includes 90 options.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envoy_Air
    What's an E174?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post

    Embraer ERJ 140 (6)
    To be phased out.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envoy_Air
    Nope, is the other way around, bunch of them coming back online, heading to LGA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    What's an E174?
    A 175 owned by AAG

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOtPilot View Post
    As of March 1, 2017, the Envoy Air fleet consists of the following aircraft:

    Bombardier CRJ 700 (35)
    Transfer of remaining fleet to PSA will resume April 2017.

    Embraer ERJ 140 (6)
    6 in active service. To be phased out. Most are stored at Mathis Field in "Near-Flying" condition on month to month lease of ramp space.

    Embraer ERJ-145 (74)
    24 to be transferred to Piedmont Airlines.

    Embraer E174 (33)
    Deliveries began November 2015. Includes 90 options.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envoy_Air
    No plans to exercise the 90 options. Even if they wanted to, they can't because of AA scope.

    This is why Dacuj's assertion that we're going to have 7 crew bases very soon is complete and total male bovine feces. My money is on 2 by the end of 2018.

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    Quote Originally Posted by No Tuna In Cockpit View Post
    A 175 owned by AAG



    No plans to exercise the 90 options. Even if they wanted to, they can't because of AA scope.

    This is why Dacuj's assertion that we're going to have 7 crew bases very soon is complete and total male bovine feces. My money is on 2 by the end of 2018.
    Yeah but the rumors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 360DD View Post
    Yeah but the rumors.
    The rumors are growing legs. On many fronts.

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    Didn't you hear. We just have to spend money to reconfigure the crjs and pesto. Endless supply of 174's.
    Sarcasm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr25cents View Post
    Nope, is the other way around, bunch of them coming back online, heading to LGA.
    .
    I thought we were scoped out with small RJs (I dont know the exact language). There would have to be an equal departure of small RJs that do flying for AAG for that to happen. Unless you know of any loss in the somewhat near future of 50 seat flying currently being done at AAG that will not be done, I dont think it's possible. Currently have 53 140s parked in SJT. With our 6 still buzzing around, lets just call it 60. There would have to be a departure of 60 small RJs that fly for AAG for those 140s to come back.

    Anyways, why would they want 140s flying out of LGA?

    And even then...skywest would probably do it
    Last edited by snippercr; 04-07-2017 at 12:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snippercr View Post
    .
    I thought we were scoped out with small RJs (I dont know the exact language). There would have to be an equal departure of small RJs that do flying for AAG for that to happen. Unless you know of any loss in the somewhat near future of 50 seat flying currently being done at AAG that will not be done, I dont think it's possible. Currently have 53 140s parked in SJT. With our 6 still buzzing around, lets just call it 60. There would have to be a departure of 60 small RJs that fly for AAG for those 140s to come back.

    Anyways, why would they want 140s flying out of LGA?

    And even then...skywest would probably do it
    Back in the good old days, most 140s were in LGA and LAX so, 140s heading to LGA would be nothing new. With that said, I REALLY don't think is gonna be a huge amount of 140s, probably between 10-20 but only AAG knows the actual number.

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    Registered User NoOtPilot's Avatar
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    In October 2016 we had 89 E145's. March 2017 we have 74.
    Transferring about two a month.
    IMO will keep 50 145's until their lease expirations (2023).

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    So at present we are projected in 2019 to have 50 145s and 40 175s. That mean we only need 900 pilots?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF View Post
    So at present we are projected in 2019 to have 50 145s and 40 175s. That mean we only need 900 pilots?
    At present, only the guys way above our pay grades know the fleet projections. I can tell you they aren't sinking crazy amounts of money into this place to shrink us though.

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    From what I understand the fleet projection changes almost daily. Not really worth the paper it's written on

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    Quote Originally Posted by flyinsol0 View Post
    From what I understand the fleet projection changes almost daily. Not really worth the paper it's written on
    .
    this guy gets it. There could be a fleet plan that says Envoy will shrink to 40 175s operated solely out of DFW and that's it. There could also be a fleet plan that says Envoy will operate all 150 NN 175s, take back all the 145s from PDT and TSA, get the 140s out of SJT and bring what ever 135s we have from IGM back into service, flying out of BOS, RDU, BNA, SJU, LAX and MIA again with all the coal miners back on the job.

    Basically, I give about 3 months out is as far as anything can be safely projected. Does the fleet plan say that in the next 3 months, xyz will happen? There is a fairly good chance xyz will happen. Does some plan say that in the next 12-18 months, zyx will happen - it may happen, or it may not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schmuck View Post
    At present, only the guys way above our pay grades know the fleet projections. I can tell you they aren't sinking crazy amounts of money into this place to shrink us though.
    It's my understanding Envoy is or at least was intended to eventually be an all E-175 operator. Considering AA scope and the ability to modify CRJ-700's (and I suppose some E-170's) down to 65 seats, they could put a significant number of E-175's at Envoy. I think that will take time and thus the core of E-145's will stay until what always seems a fluid position regarding AA feeders stabilizes more. The plan of multiple carriers and stratified hub operations still is obvious and considering it's very unlikely Envoy will receive back CRJ's it transfers and will likely not be the sole operator of E-175's, Envoy will almost certainly not be as big in the future as it is now. There are wildcards no one can predict with certainty though. Among them is the supply of pilots which will see the ability to poach subside, the interest in older pilots trying something new for $60K/year (and likely getting bored or disinterested after their 2nd year pay cut and substandard treatment) wane and the college programs unable to meet all regionals future needs. Will Parker make more investment in mainline retaking former regional flying (much of which was former mainline before that) like Delta and United ? Who knows. Scope is virtually certain to remain at present levels, which at least for AA means they'll have to sit on the sidelines regarding any use of NG RJ's like the E-175-E2 to be considered for the present Envoy unless it comes with a massive contractual offer for AA pilots, which is highly unlikely, so a self-induced stronghold might be in play in the future.

    Again, at least as it stands now, if (and I think it's a matter of when) the pilot issue becomes a REAL issue and Envoy cannot staff, they'll have two options; Either flow itself out of existence or alter the flow, neither of which will be good for pilot attraction or retention. Soon you can expect Parker to be a part of the call to the Trump administration and anti-organized labor Congress to scrap the present pilot experience restrictions as a result of the Colgan accident and restart to ab-initio ability to fly for a 121 carrier with as little as 250 hours like the rest of the world. That will take years though to get up to enough speed to meet the mainline retirement vacuum and in the interim, the three legacies who rely on regional feed to compete will be in a tough spot. Considering both wily Delta and astute United (now with Kirby) are hedging their bets with less regional exposure while AA doubles down on regionals, it just might be AA that ends up with the **** end of the stick, but that would be self-inserted. While all this is in play, AA has a huge retirement forecast which AA may not be able to handle training wise which could hobble the operations ability to compete or put up respectable performance as well. Any significant neutering of revenue such as the crippling of AA's feed combined with the fumbling of its internal ability to operate flights would compound the already staggering debt AA has and has the potential to be a "perfect storm" for AA in the relatively near future. Confidence is very low among many that AAG is playing the right cards by doubling down on the failed philosophies of the past as the key to their future while the rest of the industry goes in another direction. Time will tell whether AAG's choices are boxcars or snake-eyes, but personally I already hear too much hissing to hedge my bets that the train to utopia is underway and running smoothly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snippercr View Post
    .
    this guy gets it. There could be a fleet plan that says Envoy will shrink to 40 175s operated solely out of DFW and that's it. There could also be a fleet plan that says Envoy will operate all 150 NN 175s, take back all the 145s from PDT and TSA, get the 140s out of SJT and bring what ever 135s we have from IGM back into service, flying out of BOS, RDU, BNA, SJU, LAX and MIA again with all the coal miners back on the job.

    Basically, I give about 3 months out is as far as anything can be safely projected. Does the fleet plan say that in the next 3 months, xyz will happen? There is a fairly good chance xyz will happen. Does some plan say that in the next 12-18 months, zyx will happen - it may happen, or it may not.
    Hopefully, you realize that AA and Envoy are intertwined and if it goes bad for Envoy, it won't be good for AA (the place you are flowing to, if you plan to). Likewise, if AA's boat sinks, the Envoy dinghy strapped to the side goes down to Davy Jones' locker right along with it. Mountainous debt, abysmal labor relations and questionable strategy all seem apparent and the question that must be asked is, are these really the ingredients for a long-term successful corporation and one that truly can not only compete, but lead ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by No Tuna In Cockpit View Post
    A 175 owned by AAG



    No plans to exercise the 90 options. Even if they wanted to, they can't because of AA scope.

    This is why Dacuj's assertion that we're going to have 7 crew bases very soon is complete and total male bovine feces. My money is on 2 by the end of 2018.
    Think 140s out of storage going to LGA. Replacing some Air Wisky stuff as well. Guess you just don't get it.

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    It's not growth in lga its is recapturing what was given up in the first place and not even fully. ORD is shrinking for envoy while it grows every month for skw. Guess you don't get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    It's not growth in lga its is recapturing what was given up in the first place and not even fully. ORD is shrinking for envoy while it grows every month for skw. Guess you don't get it.
    He doesn't (or does and won't acknowledge it here). All that's occurring is the shuffling of available (and usable) assets around an operational board. I'm not saying bringing a relative handful of tired, old 44-seaters out of Scorpionville is necessarily a bad thing, but it's not an earth-shaking move for either AA's or Envoy's future. Most of those birds will be pepsi cans and solo cups a short 5 years from now. AA's regional system is simply a chameleon constantly changing its appearance and chameleons don't live forever.

    I'm wondering if UAL will go with the Embraer or Bombardier NG small jets. The CS looks neat, but it sure is expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Think 140s out of storage going to LGA. Replacing some Air Wisky stuff as well. Guess you just don't get it.
    What is with your use of the word "think"? Think palm trees. Think air whisky bases. Think 140s. Only thing I'm thinking is you're an a$$.

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