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    Registered User Dacuj's Avatar
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    2/5.x


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    So many of you have hurled the hate and insults my way in response to my posts. "Salesman" or "company man" are some of the BS labels applied to me. The proof is here and now with the 3 year upgrades trending to a 2 year upgrade by the end of the year. Envoy pilots will upgrade in 2 years and flow to AA in 5. As recently as just a couple of years ago the upgrade was still stuck at 8 years and when the 2.5/6 came out, all you doom and gloomers had a field day.

    Now that it's really happening, and not only 2.5/6 but now very, very obviously 2/5.x, are you still seriously doom and glooming it? I've been educating you here. A change of mind due to being educated is a positive thing. Still negative after this news? Well, you can't fix stupid.

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    I'm glad it dropped so much but I'm not happy as to at the cost. Multiple base closures, concessions, pilot group 1/2 of the size, horrible QOL due to worst schedules in my 10 years, outsourcing more flying every day. If we were still 3000 pilots with LAX ORD LGA JFK MIA DFW BOS SJU as bases with 300+ lines in each base with 4 on 3 off as the norm and 85+ hour lines, I'd be even more impressed. Now how many pilots will have the time to upgrade in 2.5 years?
    Last edited by eaglepilot; 03-17-2017 at 07:36 AM.

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    Hey. F*ck head. This company and this quality of life sucks. Case closed. I don't care if they get awarded Capt at their interview. I don't care if 300 new hires come charging down the door. Read the MEC news blasts once in a while. They aren't addressing 10 pilots on here. They are addressing the obvious fact everyone knows.
    You come sounding on here like Mr Rogers living in your land of make believe. GMAFB.

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    To everyone else. Happy St Patrick's day. 🍺 on me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF View Post
    Hey. F*ck head. This company and this quality of life sucks. Case closed. I don't care if they get awarded Capt at their interview. I don't care if 300 new hires come charging down the door. Read the MEC news blasts once in a while. They aren't addressing 10 pilots on here. They are addressing the obvious fact everyone knows.
    You come sounding on here like Mr Rogers living in your land of make believe. GMAFB.
    This. I am very excited that I was awarded CA in this latest vacancy, it will be a 4.5 year upgrade for me, about which I can't particularly complain. The QOL, on the other hand, I most certainly can. While my pay will go up I am well aware that this upgrade will come at a cost, and that my personal life and time at home will take a serious hit. I will be away from my wife and friends more, anticipate being junior manned, and will have more stress overall. Reserve is what it is, I endured it for 3 years as an FO, so I know what is coming. With that said, I will be more proactive with updating my apps with PIC time in an effort to get hired at DL and UA. There's always good news and bad news, it's just too bad that ENY and AAG management seem to care so little about the quality of life and we'll being of those who make them their billions.

    I hope that as the pilot shortage develops further that our management makes efforts to improve the lives of all of the pilots on the seniority list rather than simply put a pot of gold at the entry door. That initial bonus will only go so far if QOL continues to degrade or even stagnate.

    Dacuj, if you can't address the magnitude of the issues concerning qol here you have no business talking about the overall benefit of being a pilot st envoy. 90% of the pilots are not happy with the experience they are having here, contrary to your proclamations. You need to acknowledge the pitfalls of you want anybody to listen to you. Your credibility here is already non existent.

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    Before I get flamed for what may be perceived as complaints of upgrading, I want to clarify: I am aware this is something everybody goes through. I am excited about upgrading, really really am, and am grateful that I will have a substantial increase to my hourly wage. I am more expressing my displeasure of the envoy qol overall, as the schedules even for line holders is abysmal and most of the pilots I know, whether FO or CA are not happy with QOL here, as well as the willingness of the company to violate our contract. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by copycopy View Post
    Before I get flamed for what may be perceived as complaints of upgrading, I want to clarify: I am aware this is something everybody goes through. I am excited about upgrading, really really am, and am grateful that I will have a substantial increase to my hourly wage. I am more expressing my displeasure of the envoy qol overall, as the schedules even for line holders is abysmal and most of the pilots I know, whether FO or CA are not happy with QOL here, as well as the willingness of the company to violate our contract. Carry on...
    There is no reason that reserve s to mean a life of misery. Sure it's not as good as holding a line but why should it mean being junior manned and no time at home? Why is it accepted that a reserve pilot should have less days off than a line-holder? It's more cultural than anything.

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    so much to say but I'll refrain from feeding the troll. Your numbers are completely off. we aren't directly attacking you. Just pointing out that your wrong. I'll ask for the fourth time now. Are you or have you ever been a pilot at envoy? If you have not been in our shoes you have no business talking about our qol.

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    "Awarded captain" and "completed training" are two widely different timelines at the moment. And Captain pay doesn't take effect until after you pass your fed ride...

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    Dacuj. Doesn't care. Right now the best the flow will be by years end will be 12 years. He manipulates the information to suit the rhetoric he wants. He'll say 2.5 year upgrade by years end. But on track for a 6 year flow. Years end will be 12 year flow. By years end the most junior line qualified Capt will be what?
    Let's forget about flow and upgrades. If those are the only two reasons to come to an airline then you need to go back to recruitment school.
    FWIW I upgraded at 5 years. That was 6 years ago. The upgrade time was crashing down. From indefinite when I was hired to 5 years when I started upgrade training. Then chpt 11. Everyone junior to me didn't even get to finish training. The current new hire class sent home. And the last two new hire classes were furloughed. Never count your eggs until they are hatched.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
    "Awarded captain" and "completed training" are two widely different timelines at the moment. And Captain pay doesn't take effect until after you pass your fed ride...
    Understood, and hopefully I don't have an extremely long wait. I'm hoping I enter training in 6 months, which would put me at 4.5ish years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by copycopy View Post
    Understood, and hopefully I don't have an extremely long wait. I'm hoping I enter training in 6 months, which would put me at 4.5ish years.
    Kind of changes your whole outlook when you upgrade huh? Plus you got the flow. Yeah, this place is bad. Sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
    "Awarded captain" and "completed training" are two widely different timelines at the moment. And Captain pay doesn't take effect until after you pass your fed ride...
    Award this man a shot of Irish Whiskey !

    A bid award is basically an uncashed check. When it is cashed AND you have the funds, THEN it's a valid check. The upgrade here is the same concept. As for the flow, that is a projection of a check that is promised to arrive in years and hasn't even arrived and thus even though someone from 6 years ago is cashing theirs, it is not a good indication that someone just getting a notice that a check is projected to arrive in over half a decade, will.

    Anyone who claims otherwise is living in an alternative reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by copycopy View Post
    Understood, and hopefully I don't have an extremely long wait. I'm hoping I enter training in 6 months, which would put me at 4.5ish years.
    Don't forget your flow (one of the principle points of upgrading here) depends on Envoy moving pilots into Envoy, so they can move pilots to captain which allows them to move pilots to AA. Even if upgrade isn't required to flow to AA, that metric IS a litmus as to how that process is and will function properly. If the dots don't connect like they aren't now, it's good advice to recognize that and prepare for possible speed bumps in the flow. That means a longer tenure at Envoy unless you eject to other carriers beforehand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlameInSky View Post
    Kind of changes your whole outlook when you upgrade huh? Plus you got the flow. Yeah, this place is bad. Sure.
    It's not "bad" ?

    Odd how you imply this is not the case here, yet on another forum describe in specifics how various management operatives will lie through their teeth to screw over a line pilot and therefore said pilot must............MUST secure documentation to prove their conduct and ostensibly defend themselves against inevitable assault upon them by management.

    You'll never find credibility talking out of both sides of your face like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    It's not "bad" ?

    Odd how you imply this is not the case here, yet on another forum describe in specifics how various management operatives will lie through their teeth to screw over a line pilot and therefore said pilot must............MUST secure documentation to prove their conduct and ostensibly defend themselves against inevitable assault upon them by management.

    You'll never find credibility talking out of both sides of your face like this.
    I thought you were done with APC? Odd how rondonq pops up over there at the oddest times and beats the flow is never gonna work drum. Yeah, that's credibility right there. I think you also said that we wouldn't even have 150 CA vacancies in all of 2016. Odd how you fail to remember that.

    I've been honest about the schedules here and some management will do exactly as mentioned. You've just got to watch yourself in certain cases. The credibility problem lies squarely with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlameInSky View Post
    I thought you were done with APC? Odd how rondonq pops up over there at the oddest times and beats the flow is never gonna work drum. Yeah, that's credibility right there. I think you also said that we wouldn't even have 150 CA vacancies in all of 2016. Odd how you fail to remember that.

    I've been honest about the schedules here and some management will do exactly as mentioned. You've just got to watch yourself in certain cases. The credibility problem lies squarely with you.
    Nice attempt at deflection Mr. Spicer, but I never said I was "done with" APC. What I said was that I don't POST there and I've never made any claim about Envoy having X upgrade vacancies in 2016 anywhere. That is simply your desluion/assumption association. Nice try, but the fact is your credibility is judged by the Envoy pilots who know what the facts are and what the fantasies are and that unequivocally makes you the co-poster boy at Envoy of the crapola distribution profession. It doesn't matter what I think of you, but what about your fellow Envoy pilots think about you and in that respect, you get an F+ (the plus being a couple of sympathetic pilots that in their confusion look upon you with some respect). The rest, clearly not so much..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlameInSky View Post
    I thought you were done with APC? Odd how rondonq pops up over there at the oddest times and beats the flow is never gonna work drum. Yeah, that's credibility right there. I think you also said that we wouldn't even have 150 CA vacancies in all of 2016. Odd how you fail to remember that.

    I've been honest about the schedules here and some management will do exactly as mentioned. You've just got to watch yourself in certain cases. The credibility problem lies squarely with you.
    Watch yourself? Really so management doesn't ever try to prove the point. They don't make examples of pilots for sport or petty games. I'm reminded of the 175 cbeckairman that was fired by AH because the company would not help out with personal issues at home. The cbeckairman that left envoy for spirit because he couldn't stand working at such a horrible company. I could go on but facts outweigh the benefits of upgrade and flow here.

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    This place is becoming more and more like EL. Same dude with nine handles, bickering and fighting... it brings a tear to my eye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Nice attempt at deflection Mr. Spicer, but I never said I was "done with" APC. What I said was that I don't POST there and I've never made any claim about Envoy having X upgrade vacancies in 2016 anywhere. That is simply your desluion/assumption association. Nice try, but the fact is your credibility is judged by the Envoy pilots who know what the facts are and what the fantasies are and that unequivocally makes you the co-poster boy at Envoy of the crapola distribution profession. It doesn't matter what I think of you, but what about your fellow Envoy pilots think about you and in that respect, you get an F+ (the plus being a couple of sympathetic pilots that in their confusion look upon you with some respect). The rest, clearly not so much..........
    It's obvious that you have serious disdain for the current administration given your attempts to pin pseudo admin character names to those on here who disagree with you. Keep in mind that the previous administration who was supposedly union friendly allowed only one strike. To a bottom feeding 30 plane operator.

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