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Thread: Envoy Regrets

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    Envoy Regrets


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    What is the general consensus here of letting someone who left Envoy after several years of service come back with either their longevity, seniority or both intact?

    Some people just have to live and learn. I know one guy personally who left for Spirit last year who seriously regrets his decision. I've also heard of two guys that left for Frontier around the same time who are literally drowning in regret for leaving.

    OK, so some people are really dumb. We've all made dumb decisions before but these three guys here have made an epick dumb decision. So, if the company was open to it...unlikely as we are literally drowning in new hires.....what do we do? Turn back time and welcome these guys back with open arms and allow them either at the bottom of their list with longevity intact or go full out and let them come back to their previous place in the seniority line?

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    I don't think it's any issue. VERY few (if any) will want to come back and the seniority jump issue is not going to happen. I've bumped into former Envoy pilots in the past who are at both Spirit and Jet Blue and found them to be very happy with where they are vs. where they were. The Spirit guys are now Airbus captains and I believe Jet Blues E-190 rate is better then AA's. Perhaps those at either of these carriers can chime in as to how their fellow former Envoyers are doing for a better vibe ?

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    Why don't you go right ahead and lay it out for us why on earth you think this would be good for anybody currently on the list? We'll wait.
    Lions led by Donkeys.

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    Why don't you go right ahead and lay it out for us why on earth you think this would be good for anybody currently on the list? We'll wait.
    I'm not saying it would be good for those on the list. I'm just asking for opinions. If these three are out there with regrets, there have to be many, many more that are out there as well. Making a mistake of such monumental proportions has to get one thinking about what could have been.

    The Spirit guys are now Airbus captains


    And so what if they are an Airbus captain. They could be a 175 Captain here and slide right over into an AA 73 or Airbus if they want. Much, much better career prospects and long term outlook.

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    Saw this post on APC. There is not need for this thread. Just his passive way of stating how this is an amazing airline and we have guys desperate to come back. I know 10 guys at Jetblue 3 at spirit. None are desperate to come back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF View Post
    Saw this post on APC. There is not need for this thread. Just his passive way of stating how this is an amazing airline and we have guys desperate to come back. I know 10 guys at Jetblue 3 at spirit. None are desperate to come back.
    Bingo. He laid in bed last night thinking up a new "topic" that he hoped would be a springboard to get Envoy pilots to question any moves out of Envoy to LCC's. A weak and obvious attempt at another con job, but hey.........that's his job. It's become a predictable joke now, but the entertainment factor is priceless. As usual, the only casualty of his latest baloney is his own credibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF View Post
    Saw this post on APC. There is not need for this thread. Just his passive way of stating how this is an amazing airline and we have guys desperate to come back. I know 10 guys at Jetblue 3 at spirit. None are desperate to come back.
    Sssssssssshhhh! I wanted to hear his convoluted reasoning on how this would benefit the current pilot group. I was mostly expecting something along the lines of "More captains! More flying! More aircraft! They'll take your place in line to Flow flow flow!" You've taken away what could have been at least 4 pages of amusement. Apologize!
    Lions led by Donkeys.

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    Saw this post on APC. There is not need for this thread. Just his passive way of stating how this is an amazing airline and we have guys desperate to come back. I know 10 guys at Jetblue 3 at spirit. None are desperate to come back.
    Just made my point. Yes, I know this is being discussed on APC. You don't see any comments about how these guys are better off for leaving over there either. Everyone is in agreement that this was a stupid decision.

    Just pointing out the hypocrisy here and how this is a cesspool for the disgruntled.

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    What we not hiring 100 a month with starting out at max pay as an f/o and all the bonuses equalling to 60k first year pay. Wow, now give seniority that was waived or never had on property to pilots to apply here. How did the flowback work out for those pilots held back from upgrades.
    Things must be getting truly bad to be wanting to offer seniority like this. Tell you what, envoy increases everyone's pay by 50% first permanently, 16% to 401k immediate from company, 6 hour min pay per day of duty, no pbs ever on property here, min days off 13 per month, long and short reserve call out, open Mia, lax, bos bases this year and then maybe we will consider. But envoy does the above first with no quid pro quo.
    Last edited by ardvark; 03-15-2017 at 08:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF View Post
    Saw this post on APC. There is not need for this thread. Just his passive way of stating how this is an amazing airline and we have guys desperate to come back. I know 10 guys at Jetblue 3 at spirit. None are desperate to come back.
    If you make this type of bonehead move then you don't need to be anywhere near the left seat of an Envoy aircraft where you can make decisions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    What we not hiring 100 a month with starting out at max pay as an f/o and all the bonuses equalling to 60k first year pay. Wow, now give seniority that was waived or never had on property to pilots to apply here. How did the flowback work out for those pilots held back from upgrades.
    Things must be getting truly bad to be wanting to offer seniority like this. Tell you what, envoy increases everyone's pay by 50% first permanently, 16% to 401k immediate from company, 6 hour min pay per day of duty, no pbs ever on property here, min days off 13 per month, long and short reserve call out, open Mia, lax, bos bases this year and then maybe we will consider. But envoy does the above first with no quid pro quo.
    Amen.

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    I think they should be allowed to come back with their company seniority, time of service for vacation accrual, 401k matching, etc. but they should be put at the bottom of the pilot seniority list.

    My reason for this is that it would also allow us to maintain company years of service when we flow.

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    Why does anybody respond to this? Not a serious topic. Nothing but a troll thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdflyer View Post
    I think they should be allowed to come back with their company seniority, time of service for vacation accrual, 401k matching, etc. but they should be put at the bottom of the pilot seniority list.

    My reason for this is that it would also allow us to maintain company years of service when we flow.
    No. If you leave and come back, you don't get to be part of the 824 or PP group. Back of the line!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdflyer View Post
    I think they should be allowed to come back with their company seniority, time of service for vacation accrual, 401k matching, etc. but they should be put at the bottom of the pilot seniority list.

    My reason for this is that it would also allow us to maintain company years of service when we flow.
    Remeber if you were here, we hade these things mostly for vacation, 401k vesting and retirement travel but PARKER, KIRBY and ISOM took them away now you want me to give something up to get it back, NOPE, but----

    you do understand that after the 824 all pilots going to AA via flow are treated as new hires, YOU BRING NOTHING WITH YOU. Now if AA wants to give me seniority carried over from envoy for pay, vacation, 401k vesting and bid as a new hire seniority maybe in addition to what i mentioned just before we may consider, BUT all these things must be done first by envoy and AA with no quid pro quo.
    Last edited by ardvark; 03-15-2017 at 10:55 AM.
    Sir, can I have another.

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    He is probably the idiot that went to spirit and wants back now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    No. If you leave and come back, you don't get to be part of the 824 or PP group. Back of the line!
    Not what I'm saying at all. You don't get to be part of the 824 or PP. Your a day 1 new hire, but if you've already have 10 years prior service I think that time should count for retirement, vacation accrual (not bidding), 401k company match.

    An employee that has never left should in no way be harmed on any issue (QOL, pay, bidding, flow, etc.)

    I also believe that all pilots who flow should get to maintain their ICE benefits, regardless if they are 824, PP, or others

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    I personally know of 4 people who left for LCCs (3 FOs and 1 CA) and they are all pretty happy. In fact, one of them already went to United. He says that the Airbus type rating helped him land the job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Remeber if you were here, we hade these things mostly for vacation, 401k vesting and retirement travel but PARKER, KIRBY and ISOM took them away now you want me to give something up to get it back, NOPE, but----

    you do understand that after the 824 all pilots going to AA via flow are treated as new hires, YOU BRING NOTHING WITH YOU. Now if AA wants to give me seniority carried over from envoy for pay, vacation, 401k vesting and bid as a new hire seniority maybe in addition to what i mentioned just before we may consider, BUT all these things must be done first by envoy and AA with no quid pro quo.
    I think you may have misunderstood what I meant and I'm fully aware of the lack of benefits that will be carried over if you are outside the 824.

    I also think it's complete BS that someone who was hired when they were 30, puts 14 years on eaglevoy property before he flows has to wait until he's 60 to see max vacation. Loses a full year+ of 401k contributions. Has to work an extra 5 years before he has points to retire, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl View Post
    He is probably the idiot that went to spirit and wants back now!
    Nope, still here and never left. But turned down JB in 2006. But no regrets. If I had taken that job my life would be different. Not necessarily better or worse.

    I know if I had left eagle in 06 I would have never met my wife and I wouldn't have my child. I wouldn't trade either of those things for anything.

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