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Thread: Vacancy Out - 2/24/17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    The unfortunate reality. If you do the compensation metrics, AA is on path to become the "regional of the majors". The "majors" (the traditional past term for the top-tier carriers and a pilots final stop) include the other two legacies, now Southwest and FedEx/UPS, ALL of whom will (and already do) have pilot compensation packages that FAR surpass AA pilot compensation. If you have a 25 year career or longer it will add up to millions in value. Yes, AA does have some good domiciles and will have some shiny jets, but when it comes to pay, non pay compensation, schedules and treatment, AA is.........well, the best description would be a consolation prize. No doubt many at AA are fine with this and love being at AA, but this is exactly why AA's pilot compensation metrics are not likely to change. Being 6th in pilot compensation is just fine when shiny planes and crew meals are there, I guess.

    It's important to fully understand what you are flowing into if AA is truly the place you want to be.
    Sad but true. Compensation aside Parker has systematically turned AA into a low cost carrier. Or for that matter USAir. 4th of 4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3holerr View Post
    I've never come close to 5 legs. 3 at the very most. Usually 1 or 2.
    On 80 I used to get some 4 leg days but now more than a 2 leg day is very rare. Most of the time it's one leg a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF View Post
    Sad but true. Compensation aside Parker has systematically turned AA into a low cost carrier. Or for that matter USAir. 4th of 4.
    Yes, I think just a larger US Airways with new paint and a larger footprint. US Airways was profitable because of its low labor costs, but its product was mediocre and I think that's the mentality that is here and will stay. However, AA has a staggering debt load FAR beyond the next relative carrier and should any significant downturn in the industry occur, many think AA is in grave danger. It cannot be stressed enough to any present or future AA pilot that they should plan accordingly on Murphy's law appearing at some future point. Flying for AA means one needs to have a much larger savings to fall back on vs. pilots at other better managed carriers and also accept a higher possibility of restarting elsewhere should one be very junior here when Murphy shows up.

    Pilots tend to focus on shiny planes and assume best case scenarios (which is what dacuj wants you to do), whereas they should be more analytical in their future planning to be better positioned to deal with or even avoid the inevitable setbacks and I think that is probably the best advantages AA's competitors have over it insofar as pilots go. Remember, where AA goes, so does Envoy (at least as long as it's owned).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    An Envoy recruiter? I wouldn't be surprised if people are leaving Jetblue SW for Envoy. As over half the new hires are flows, it's extremely difficult to get hired off the street and Envoy provides the best option to get to AA.
    No, not a recruiter, an AA line Captain who conducts interviews.

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    Oh yes the crew meals - probably why many including myself buy food in the terminal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwa View Post
    Oh yes the crew meals - probably why many including myself buy food in the terminal.
    Airline food wears off quickly. So, I guess that leaves just shiny jets and unfortunately we know that does NOT wear off so quickly. If only it did, pilots wouldn't be blinded by them so badly, they'd happily work for substantially less then their peers at other carriers. But AA has its destiny and so do AA pilots and what better place to prep for that then Envoy ?

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    Yes, I think just a larger US Airways with new paint and a larger footprint. US Airways was profitable because of its low labor costs, but its product was mediocre and I think that's the mentality that is here and will stay. However, AA has a staggering debt load FAR beyond the next relative carrier and should any significant downturn in the industry occur, many think AA is in grave danger. It cannot be stressed enough to any present or future AA pilot that they should plan accordingly on Murphy's law appearing at some future point. Flying for AA means one needs to have a much larger savings to fall back on vs. pilots at other better managed carriers and also accept a higher possibility of restarting elsewhere should one be very junior here when Murphy shows up.

    Pilots tend to focus on shiny planes and assume best case scenarios (which is what dacuj wants you to do), whereas they should be more analytical in their future planning to be better positioned to deal with or even avoid the inevitable setbacks and I think that is probably the best advantages AA's competitors have over it insofar as pilots go. Remember, where AA goes, so does Envoy (at least as long as it's owned).


    Sadly for you, Envoy isn't going anywhere. It's too valuable to sell and that's why AAG kept it. It's the number one provider of pilots to AA and AA needs Envoy's feed. Every bit of it now since AWAC is out of the picture. I'll give you one guess what's going to happen to Envoy since AWAC is leaving. Growth. Big time growth.

    And it won't be a problem. 70 plus months in the hiring department are the norm now. You'll begin hearing talk of 100 new hires a month in the near future. Some of those old E145s are going to be staying around a lot longer than some think. Now, you may begin to hear talk of two or three or even four new bases. The LA talk won't go away and then you need to take a look at AWAC's bases and finally, think east coast and palm trees. Yes, we are needed in all of those places. All of this great news will just add up to more and more wanting to make the jump here to Envoy. Expressjet unfortunately seems to be dying on the vine. Yes, we are getting Acey guys here now. They just wonder now why they didn't make the jump a long time ago.

    The harder you hope for Envoy's demise, we just keep getting better and stronger.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post


    Sadly for you, Envoy isn't going anywhere. It's too valuable to sell and that's why AAG kept it. It's the number one provider of pilots to AA and AA needs Envoy's feed. Every bit of it now since AWAC is out of the picture. I'll give you one guess what's going to happen to Envoy since AWAC is leaving. Growth. Big time growth.

    And it won't be a problem. 70 plus months in the hiring department are the norm now. You'll begin hearing talk of 100 new hires a month in the near future. Some of those old E145s are going to be staying around a lot longer than some think. Now, you may begin to hear talk of two or three or even four new bases. The LA talk won't go away and then you need to take a look at AWAC's bases and finally, think east coast and palm trees. Yes, we are needed in all of those places. All of this great news will just add up to more and more wanting to make the jump here to Envoy. Expressjet unfortunately seems to be dying on the vine. Yes, we are getting Acey guys here now. They just wonder now why they didn't make the jump a long time ago.

    The harder you hope for Envoy's demise, we just keep getting better and stronger.


    Lot's of truth on this. Thanks to Air Wiskey.

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    So LA will come back at Chicago's demise? Ric even said 50 lines by years end. I've been through three base closures. I don't wish a closure or downsize on anyone.

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    Remember, this is the same individual who claims pilots are leaving Southwest and JetBlue for Envoy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post


    Sadly for you, Envoy isn't going anywhere. It's too valuable to sell and that's why AAG kept it. It's the number one provider of pilots to AA and AA needs Envoy's feed. Every bit of it now since AWAC is out of the picture. I'll give you one guess what's going to happen to Envoy since AWAC is leaving. Growth. Big time growth.

    And it won't be a problem. 70 plus months in the hiring department are the norm now. You'll begin hearing talk of 100 new hires a month in the near future. Some of those old E145s are going to be staying around a lot longer than some think. Now, you may begin to hear talk of two or three or even four new bases. The LA talk won't go away and then you need to take a look at AWAC's bases and finally, think east coast and palm trees. Yes, we are needed in all of those places. All of this great news will just add up to more and more wanting to make the jump here to Envoy. Expressjet unfortunately seems to be dying on the vine. Yes, we are getting Acey guys here now. They just wonder now why they didn't make the jump a long time ago.

    The harder you hope for Envoy's demise, we just keep getting better and stronger.


    Why would I care if Envoy goes somewhere ? I certainly won't be sad if it remains separate, is merged with other WO's or even spun off to the shareholders as that would have zero effect on me. In your paranoid, delusional state, you confuse questioning your desperate pathetic efforts at convincing the world there's no place like Envoy with Envoy going somewhere. Again, I have to wonder at your spiraling delusion.......now we're up to an endless supply of 100 new-hires a month when they can't even kick 25 F/O's to line captain qualified status ? LOL !

    Next will be 100 E-195's. Actually, if I wanted bad things for Envoy pilots, I would be selling Envoy like you do in the hope it expands like crazy as that way, AA likely shrinks more as Envoy takes its flying which slows the flow. AA is already shrinking and Parker is itching for Scope relief, so who knows, perhaps you will get bigger E-jets ? Of course, then you'll have to shift from selling the flow to selling a shiny new career E-jet that sadly.................is still just Envoy.

    If that occurs, I promise not to be sad !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post


    I'll give you one guess what's going to happen to Envoy since AWAC is leaving. Growth. Big time growth.

    Now, you may begin to hear talk of two or three or even four new bases. The LA talk won't go away and then you need to take a look at AWAC's bases and finally, think east coast and palm trees.


    4 NEW Bases?! That's tremendously bigly. Big time. How far into the future are you predicting these 4 new bases? Asking for a friend.

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    Psa allready got DC, and they are talking about ORD as well...
    Envoy? Aaa, none...

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    Let's talk about metering the flow because the company claims understaffing. 40 new hires a month, net loss of airframes 72 hour lines with 11 days off. Yet every month LTFO return days are denied. I have heard of PO's and PVD's but I've also heard of women that rank in the unicorn level on the hot crazy matrix. JM's are through the roof and quality of life at the present time is at its lowest point for many pilots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF View Post
    Let's talk about metering the flow because the company claims understaffing. 40 new hires a month, net loss of airframes 72 hour lines with 11 days off. Yet every month LTFO return days are denied. I have heard of PO's and PVD's but I've also heard of women that rank in the unicorn level on the hot crazy matrix. JM's are through the roof and quality of life at the present time is at its lowest point for many pilots.
    Fake news according to the lotionizer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagleboy View Post
    Fake news according to the lotionizer.
    Guess that makes you the fable-izer then. I love how you are constantly throwing Molotov cocktails in the Envoy forum on APC with one of your alt-screen names. Always saying you are hearing the flow isn't going to work, it's slowing down, etc. I thought you had "friends" here. If you were really worried about them, why spread the lies about how the flow blows and is going to stop, etc.?

    I think the answer is because you are eaglefly and you just love hating on Envoy. Like I said, it's the jealousy thing.

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    an instructor told me that RW about 2 classes back told them that only 40 e175 are coming because envoy cannot staff the flying. guess the shoe is on the other foot now. the golden child now is skywest for aa.
    Sir, can I have another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Guess that makes you the fable-izer then. I love how you are constantly throwing Molotov cocktails in the Envoy forum on APC with one of your alt-screen names. Always saying you are hearing the flow isn't going to work, it's slowing down, etc. I thought you had "friends" here. If you were really worried about them, why spread the lies about how the flow blows and is going to stop, etc.?

    I think the answer is because you are eaglefly and you just love hating on Envoy. Like I said, it's the jealousy thing.
    Keep banging flat spots into your head about me and APC if it gives you a buzz. I don't post there whether you believe it or not. Show me a post where I said the flow will stop. I HAVE said that Envoy will not be able to attract sufficient new-hires to match attrition in perpetuity and a Envoy already cannot upgrade enough pilots on a monthly basis (actual movement from F/O to line captain qualified status) as they flow, so something will have to change. Of course Envoy us skated to shrink. Don't buy what is the general vibe about Envoy transferring and parking birds ? Fine, but offer specifics instead of prop wash. I don't hate a Envoy or most if it's pilots, but a few have some bad wiring IMO. ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    Guess that makes you the fable-izer then. I love how you are constantly throwing Molotov cocktails in the Envoy forum on APC with one of your alt-screen names. Always saying you are hearing the flow isn't going to work, it's slowing down, etc. I thought you had "friends" here. If you were really worried about them, why spread the lies about how the flow blows and is going to stop, etc.?

    I think the answer is because you are eaglefly and you just love hating on Envoy. Like I said, it's the jealousy thing.
    What does one have to be jealous about? This place sucks.

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    They are jealous because we suck more than others

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