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Thread: Vacancy Out - 2/24/17

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlameInSky View Post
    To each their own but if you want to be flying 5 legs a day and working that hard, go ahead. I'm not going to say anything bad about someone going to Southwest. But if you are within striking distance of AA via the flow, it should really give you pause.
    I just noticed a new hire at AA for proposed APA membership, listed previous airline as Southwest. There was another one from Hawaiian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by No Tuna In Cockpit View Post
    It's not the 5-leg days... it's 8 hour days... every day. This is a two-faced issue: People at Eaglevoy complain about unproductive schedules, but at Southwest, a 24-hour 3-day is common. With min-rest overnights. You will get your ass kicked in 3 days compared to Envoy. If that's what you like, then Southwest is the place for you. The real kicker that kept me from applying there was the 13-15 year upgrade. And guys there that I've talked to say it's not coming down any time soon. Just...no.
    Oh yes. 24 hour 3 days. We had those years ago. 18 days off. Those were the good ole days. Now we're lucky to get 18 hour 4 days and 12 days off.

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    I just noticed a new hire at AA for proposed APA membership, listed previous airline as Southwest. There was another one from Hawaiian.
    Makes my point. AA is the place to be.

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    According to APA. Delta is the place to be. Unless you work at endeavor then United is the place to be.

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    KDA

    yeah right

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    Are you out of your mind? Place to be? Give the recruiting a rest, criminy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy5 View Post
    Are you out of your mind? Place to be? Give the recruiting a rest, criminy!
    I would expect the upgrades to be around 60-70 and closer together this year. Still near the 300 number though. That was totally unheard of according to you guys last year.

    We have turned the corner. Recruiting and hiring large numbers of pilots. Flowing record numbers and 2 year upgrades. Some of you naysayers heads are probably spinning. And we are just getting started. Yep, this is the place to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy5 View Post
    Are you out of your mind? Place to be? Give the recruiting a rest, criminy!
    These periodic fairly large upgrade awards aren't a bad thing, but the component to focus on as a better metric would be how fast they are moving F/O's completely through the training process to line qualified status. Those pilots need to meet or exceed the monthly flow rate or the flow thru engine is backfiring due to an excessively lean mixture which means the Envoy choo-choo is wobbling significantly on the tracks.

    The new-hire/upgrade/flow process must be balanced for a confident trip to the destination those with AA as their goal seek. Be wary of obsessed conductors distracting you from the banging and rocking of the train.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 360DD View Post
    I just noticed a new hire at AA for proposed APA membership, listed previous airline as Southwest. There was another one from Hawaiian.
    I flowed a little over a year ago. I commute, and I sat next to one of our pilots who does interviews. He told me they interview lots of SWA, and JetBlue guys as of lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    I would expect the upgrades to be around 60-70 and closer together this year. Still near the 300 number though. That was totally unheard of according to you guys last year.

    We have turned the corner. Recruiting and hiring large numbers of pilots. Flowing record numbers and 2 year upgrades. Some of you naysayers heads are probably spinning. And we are just getting started. Yep, this is the place to be.
    Had a plane go out 2 min late on Thursday. I received the phone call Fri morning. Apparently I took the delay. Plane sat at the gate for 4 hours. No one cleaned it catered it lav or water. Taking it to Calgary. 4 hour block. Booked full. The agent boards without confirmation, there is trash in the aisle seats and seat backs. "We don't hold boarding for cabin cleaning". The flight attendants out of pride for their airline rushed to pick up as much as they could. We bought off 9 people and the agent at departure time is yelling at my number 1 that we need to go. Meanwhile the other agent is in the back moving people up to first, due to cg issues. Finally closed the door and go with half water because we are told it doesn't work at the gate. I explained to the powers that be that this is an embarrassment to us as crew members who deal with the snafu day in and day out. I mention. The three precept we follow from Fm1 second being passenger comfort and convenience and third on time. I'm told that we don't hold boarding for cleaning, again and that this will be documented on me.

    Yes. It's a great time to be at envoy. If I didn't give a S$it maybe it would be. However I take pride in my work and the company is a reflection of me when I sign for the aircraft and try to give the passengers a decent travel experience. By all means. Continue how great this place is. The moment you try to do your job they will just give you a step letter and move along.

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    AA is not "the place to be" not even close. I also love your line.."biggest airline in the world" that is sure to steer some in the ole Envoy direction. Fluff all you want. Go to Envoy and be trashed for as long as you wait for the flow to possibly work out (enjoy 4am raps). UAL and DAL are the places to be hands down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF View Post
    Had a plane go out 2 min late on Thursday. I received the phone call Fri morning. Apparently I took the delay. Plane sat at the gate for 4 hours. No one cleaned it catered it lav or water. Taking it to Calgary. 4 hour block. Booked full. The agent boards without confirmation, there is trash in the aisle seats and seat backs. "We don't hold boarding for cabin cleaning". The flight attendants out of pride for their airline rushed to pick up as much as they could. We bought off 9 people and the agent at departure time is yelling at my number 1 that we need to go. Meanwhile the other agent is in the back moving people up to first, due to cg issues. Finally closed the door and go with half water because we are told it doesn't work at the gate. I explained to the powers that be that this is an embarrassment to us as crew members who deal with the snafu day in and day out. I mention. The three precept we follow from Fm1 second being passenger comfort and convenience and third on time. I'm told that we don't hold boarding for cleaning, again and that this will be documented on me.

    Yes. It's a great time to be at envoy. If I didn't give a S$it maybe it would be. However I take pride in my work and the company is a reflection of me when I sign for the aircraft and try to give the passengers a decent travel experience. By all means. Continue how great this place is. The moment you try to do your job they will just give you a step letter and move along.
    They hold boarding at AA for cabin cleaning. What did you put the M51 on? Lack of cabin cleaning would not delay you. Sounds like passenger service would be if you're buying people off and moving people around for CG issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Layman View Post
    I flowed a little over a year ago. I commute, and I sat next to one of our pilots who does interviews. He told me they interview lots of SWA, and JetBlue guys as of lately.
    An Envoy recruiter? I wouldn't be surprised if people are leaving Jetblue SW for Envoy. As over half the new hires are flows, it's extremely difficult to get hired off the street and Envoy provides the best option to get to AA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    An Envoy recruiter? I wouldn't be surprised if people are leaving Jetblue SW for Envoy. As over half the new hires are flows, it's extremely difficult to get hired off the street and Envoy provides the best option to get to AA.
    Bro, valet park your high horse. Nobody will ever leave Blue or SW to come to a regional. Anyone at those wld make a lateral move/step to Ual, DAL.
    You are seriously delusional. "Oh yes plz I'd like to leave my 150k yr to make 2nd yr envoy rate. Wow dude..wow.
    Also anyone on here thinking of coming to envoy Know that it is 110% awful. If you can handle prison to get to a legacy than have at it...otherwise beware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ardvark View Post
    Right because AA doesn't fly 5 leg days. Should check their schedules
    I've never come close to 5 legs. 3 at the very most. Usually 1 or 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy5 View Post
    Bro, valet park your high horse. Nobody will ever leave Blue or SW to come to a regional. Anyone at those wld make a lateral move/step to Ual, DAL.
    You are seriously delusional. "Oh yes plz I'd like to leave my 150k yr to make 2nd yr envoy rate. Wow dude..wow.
    Also anyone on here thinking of coming to envoy Know that it is 110% awful. If you can handle prison to get to a legacy than have at it...otherwise beware.
    I'm really kidding about SW. But Jetblue I could totally see. Lack of a contract, low wages and crickets trying to get into AA. Totally feasible to go through Envoy to get to the final destination if you haven't wasted too much time at Blue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    I'm really kidding about SW. But Jetblue I could totally see. Lack of a contract, low wages and crickets trying to get into AA. Totally feasible to go through Envoy to get to the final destination if you haven't wasted too much time at Blue.
    People are leaving Envoy FOR JetBlue. Cause unlike here, they get treated like real people not just a number.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacuj View Post
    I'm really kidding about SW. But Jetblue I could totally see. Lack of a contract, low wages and crickets trying to get into AA. Totally feasible to go through Envoy to get to the final destination if you haven't wasted too much time at Blue.
    Dude... get real. I get you're trying to promote envoy, but at least come back to the realm of reality. When you say thing like this you lose even more credibility (although you haven't had any in quite some time, so I guess it's moot). Working conditions at envoy are pretty awful. I'm still here because I have flow in my back pocket but I'm working le a** off to get to UA/DL ASAFP. Don't kid your self.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF View Post
    According to APA. Delta is the place to be. Unless you work at endeavor then United is the place to be.
    The unfortunate reality. If you do the compensation metrics, AA is on path to become the "regional of the majors". The "majors" (the traditional past term for the top-tier carriers and a pilots final stop) include the other two legacies, now Southwest and FedEx/UPS, ALL of whom will (and already do) have pilot compensation packages that FAR surpass AA pilot compensation. If you have a 25 year career or longer it will add up to millions in value. Yes, AA does have some good domiciles and will have some shiny jets, but when it comes to pay, non pay compensation, schedules and treatment, AA is.........well, the best description would be a consolation prize. No doubt many at AA are fine with this and love being at AA, but this is exactly why AA's pilot compensation metrics are not likely to change. Being 6th in pilot compensation is just fine when shiny planes and crew meals are there, I guess.

    It's important to fully understand what you are flowing into if AA is truly the place you want to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3holerr View Post
    I've never come close to 5 legs. 3 at the very most. Usually 1 or 2.
    The S80 and even the 737 have had some 4 leg days, but anyway, considering many of the very short stage lengths of regional flights, more legs are to be expected. AA has many duty days just as long as Envoy and Envoy doesn't do all-nighters or even back-to-back all-nighters. Plenty of fatiguing schedules (and calls) at AA and some quite ugly, in fact.

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